Feeding week olds! HELP!

[Jillis]

Here's the story:
The dairy we bought our 10 babies from told us how they do it. But I'm not sure I agree. Can some of you more experienced help me out?
They fed their babies from a bucket with nipples all around, until their tummies were "rounded out" twice a day.
They feed raw cows' milk.
So I went to farm that I KNOW is clean and organic---the owners drink right out of the bulk tank themselves and I know some of the workers there, they vouch for the cleanliness and also drink from the bulk tank.
But I don't have a bucket with nipples all around. I gota 12 pack of 16 oz. Coke bottles and I am feeding them with these and those little yellow and red nipples. But how much milk should they be getting per feeding? Is 16 oz. enough? These are not pygmys or dwarfs.
One thing I am concerned about is that these babies are very thin, especially the younger ones. I am going to feed them three times a day until they aren't so bony. They are not dehydrated, and they are drinking from the water bucket, something my 2 month old babies NEVER touch, and they only get bottles twice a day! Does this mean they are hungry? They eat grain...
They range in age from 1 to 2 weeks, and one is about 4 days old. Should they be getting grain? I offered it free choice because the dairy owners did.
Any help, asap, would be appreciated!
Thanks, Jillis!

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Jillis

Here's the story:
The dairy we bought our 10 babies from told us how they do it. But I'm not sure I agree. Can some of you more experienced help me out?
They fed their babies from a bucket with nipples all around, until their tummies were "rounded out" twice a day.
They feed raw cows' milk.
So I went to farm that I KNOW is clean and organic---the owners drink right out of the bulk tank themselves and I know some of the workers there, they vouch for the cleanliness and also drink from the bulk tank.
But I don't have a bucket with nipples all around. I gota 12 pack of 16 oz. Coke bottles and I am feeding them with these and those little yellow and red nipples. But how much milk should they be getting per feeding? Is 16 oz. enough? These are not pygmys or dwarfs.
One thing I am concerned about is that these babies are very thin, especially the younger ones. I am going to feed them three times a day until they aren't so bony. They are not dehydrated, and they are drinking from the water bucket, something my 2 month old babies NEVER touch, and they only get bottles twice a day! Does this mean they are hungry? They eat grain...
They range in age from 1 to 2 weeks, and one is about 4 days old. Should they be getting grain? I offered it free choice because the dairy owners did.
Any help, asap, would be appreciated!
Thanks, Jillis!

Ok, well I feed my bottle babies four times a day till they are two-three weeks old, then I switch to three meals a day. I start them out on as much as they'll eat at every feeding, but since your kids are not starting out and aren't used to that, don't do it! I would feed them at least 3, 16 ounce bottles a day, you might try very slowly upping it some more. Feed out for them is fine.
You say they are very thin. I'm sorry, but I can't remember if you have raised goat kids before or not?? Anyway, maybe they are thin, but if you aren't used to the look of a very young ruminant then they might not be as thin as it seems to you. Kids and calves will be thin for the 1st couple weeks simply because they are babies. Not SKINNY, just not fat looking. They should start filling out after the 1st week or so of life. Also bottle babies will seem thinner than dam-raised babies because they can't run to mother for a nip of milk whenever they feel like it. I don't know, as I can't see them. Of course, if you have raised kids before, then you know what your talking about.
I have raised many, many kids on raw cows milk from healthy cows. They do great. I hope I helped a little. Any more questions, just throw them out there!

[Jillis]

Thank you Emily! I am not that experienced with newborns...but although some looked "rounder" after their bottles there are a couple that are really bony...notably the 2 Lamanchas. Maybe that is just the characteristic of their breed.
Although I stated strongly not use the sliding door on the van when taking the babies from the van to the barn, dh (of course!) did not listen and clipped one of the LaManchas in the hind leg. She is not putting any weight on it but does not seem to be in extreme pain. My experienced friend (who does agree with me that some of them are a mite too skinny) examined her carefully---no breaks, no hot spots...she put a vet patch on and a sock. She is still not putting weight on it this morning. I have her in the bath tub!

Fortunately it has been unseasonably warm for us here, and 2 heat lamps is so far doing an adequate job of warming the area they are in. Tody is cold and rainy, but still in the high 30s. I kept the big goats in and am keeping the barn door closed for extra warmth.

But I really want to get some weight on them before it gets too cold.

Some of them are still hungry after 16 oz. the ones that are younger slow down and leave a few gulps at the end. I am going to get some 20 oz. pop bottles for the bigger ones...

I may not be able to afford all the oraganic raw milk I am apparently going to need, so I may mix it with some whole milk from the grocers...

Learning, learning...I sure appreciate the experienced people who answer questions on this forum!

[Sher]

I think Emily was right on. I do it the same way she does..except I use goat milk.

And I always think kids look "skinny" in the beginning...whether they are on their mommas or a bottle!

Good luck..and enjoy...it's quite a handful when they see you coming..isn't it?

[Goat Freak]

Wait a mintue, I thought that you said that there was 9 babies, was ANOTHER one born? Congrats on the babies coming home, and yes, when they are young even the dam raised babies look skinny, but they fatten up soon enough after a couple of weeks or so.

[Teacupliz]

I feed my babies 16-20oz twice a day by 2 weeks.
free choice grain and hay.
How old are they.. They may need to be wormed, if they look thin-
Liz
Teacup Farm

[Jillis]

Thanks Liz...I am going to feed them three times a day for a least a week or so...they are mostly about a week or so old...although some are ready to be disbudded---is that 2 weeks old?
I don't know if they need to be wormed...they have beautiful coats, except, again, the LaManchas, and I am not sure if that is breed specific...and no bloat (obviously if I am worried about thin)...what wormer would you use on babies and at what age?
They are getting medicated kid and lamb starter grain---I think that helps with coccidia? Or should I get some Corricydian?

[Jillis]

Originally Posted by Goat Freak

Wait a mintue, I thought that you said that there was 9 babies, was ANOTHER one born?

When I went back, I asked if any of their Sanaans was due to kid, and he told me there was a Sanaan baby in there! I think his wife wanted to keep it, but he thought it would cry if left alone, so he had me take it...she is a real pretty little thing, but definitely at least a week old, I think...

[mary,tx]

I like to have my Nubians disbudded by one week. Maybe it is different with the other breeds, but I would not put off disbudding much longer.

I also give the little ones four bottles a day for the first week or so, and as they can take more at a time, three bottles. By maybe a month old, they can take two bottles a day.

At one week old, they should not be drinking water. I'd move the water out of the pen.
mary

[chamoisee]

Well, I don't do it that way. I don't switch to just 2 bottles a day until they're...I don't know...at least 6-8 weeks old or more and eating some hay and grain. Look at how they would eat had they been left on their dams: many small quantities of milk throughout the day. It would be healthier for them to have 8 ounces of milk at a time 4 times a day than to gorge their little bellies twice a day on 16 oz per feeding. Ideally, when I bottle feed (and I try really hard to avoid it) I try to feed them every four hours throughout the day and then no feedings during the night. They would get the last feedign between 8-10 PM and then a feeding in the morning first thing. I do this until they look strong and healthy and gradually cut back to 6 hours between feedings, or 3-4 times a day. The times when I have actually been able to do this have yielded the best results.

The bucket is probably what you should get. Just use a 5 gallon bucket (for 10 kids you will need 2 such buckets)and you can buy the black lambar nipples at the feed store or through Caprine Supply or Hoegger's. Our feed stores carry them. The nice thing about those nipples is that they can also be used on bottles. Anyway, you will also need clear plastic tubing to run from the nipple to the bottom of the bucket. Take the nipples with you when you go to the hardware store for the tubing, to make sure that it fits tightly. The nipples fit into holes drilled into the bucket- again, the holes need to be tight enough so that the nipples won't push through into the milk. I wouldn't put more than 6 nipples on each bucket, 12 altogether should be enough for 10 kids (because they tend to shove and push and run around looking for the nipple). They will gorge themselves with a lambar if they get into the habit of it from feeling starved and desperate, so I would start them on the lambars right away, before they are big enough to drain it right away. They need to just go and eat whenever they are hungry, not guzzle down as much as possible- their stomachs are not designed for that and they don't grow well that way.

[debitaber]

my kids get baby bottles, about 4 onces at first, then by the end of the first week they are up to 8 ounces, three times a day. the smaller mini's get 3 to four onces 4 times a day, for a week, then in increase the milk. but I do all increases slowly.
raws cows milk, will do just fine.

[Milking Mom]

The best thing that I think you can get to put in their bottles for cocci prevention is Decoxx-M. it comes in a 5 pound bag, you can get it at Jeffers or Valley Vet and I put 1 teaspoon in their morning bottle every day until they are weaned. I feed a 20 oz bottle 3 times a day and keep hay out constantly and start them on milkstand grain that the does get at 2 weeks old. They play in it mostly, but then get the hang of it. Congrats on the new babies.

[Jillis]

Thanks everybody, for all the good advice. I will say that I gave them all about 16 oz. in the morning and at 1 PM. I plan on giving them all 16 oz. tonight at dinner time too. Then maybe I'll go to 16 oz. AM and PM and 8 oz. midday. They look 100% better as of right now, 3:30 PM! They look properly filled out, not rounded fatsos, but not the caved-in, skinny, long-bodied-looking things they were! Also they are jumping, frisking and playing nicely with each other, very energetic! I am pleased. I put yogurt in the milk of the two that seem to have some diarrhea paste on their tail hair. They also look very reddened in that area under their tails. There are 2 like that. They do look much better, especially the white LaManchas---even their hair looks smooth and full, not all messy and flat like it did. I hope this means I am doing something right...

[Teacupliz]

Are they does or bucks? At one week I feed 3-5 times a day about 9oz. each time. I increase slowly and by 2 weeks I feed the 16-20oz each feeding--working down to twice a day. I put out hay, water and grain right form the beginning some each it others don't. I think all baby goats look on the thin side. I have never wormed before 6-8 wks. I use safeguard. Sounds like they are doing good. Don';t over feed the milk. Confussing-- yes-- I just read threw all the post.. We all have our own way. No way is the right way. We have had baby goats now 10 years and only lost one kid. I feed medicated feed.. and treat for cocci-- with Sulmet-- prevention.. 4,8 wks and weaning.
What are you raising the kids for? pets meat?

Liz

[Jillis]

Well, I guess I was really overdoing it. Too much milk. These poor babies! I have to cut back the milk tomorrow to 12 oz. AM and PM. Would ya'll pray for me please. They are so cute. I love watching them sproing suddenly and for no apparent reason.

[Goat Freak]

I will defintly pray for you. By the way, glad to hear that you got ANOTHER baby, CONGRATS. Bye.

[Jillis]

Originally Posted by Teacupliz

What are you raising the kids for? pets meat? Liz

We are raising them for dairy goats.

Thanks for your prayers, Goat Freak!

[stoneymom]

Wow - I am so excited for you!! Bottle babies are so cute - but they are ALOT of work! When I start out bottling, I aways make sure that the kid or lamb stays with mom if at all possible, so they can get the first milk. After 24 hours, take baby away and feed four to six times a 4to 6 ozs per time. Second week - 4 feedings - 8 ozs and after that gradually work up to 16 to 20 oz 2 times a day. You will want to offer water at all times and have hay and grain available after 3 weeks. We have always weaned at 8 weeks. If I have one that might look a little smaller - we would let them keep getting milk for another week or two. It is very imprtant to give the first dose of C&D with T at 2 weeks and than a booster I believe ??3 weeks later?? we have always fed whole milk from the store - warmed a little of course and the kids or lambs have done well of that. Stay away from commercial milk replacers - they are not cost effective, espcially if you are feeding a larger numer of babies. Besides - you don't know what all they put in that stuff. I aways hand feed each animal with a pop bottle and black lamb nip. I feel even though it does take longer, it gives you a chance to observe that animal - how they are breathing, sucking, etc so you can sure everything is going okay health wise.Good luck to you!! Bottle babies are a lot of work, but the end result is that you have animals who are friendly and love to be around people!

[Jillis]

Thank you, stoneymom. I will take all the input I can get. I feel soooo inept!

[goatkid]

I give my newborns all the milk they will take up to 20 oz. three or four times a day and I introduce hay at about 2 days old. When the babies are able to eat the full 20 oz. consistantly, I cut back to twice a day. I continue to free feed hay and add goat developer pellets and a bucket of water. I don't like to put the smaller babies on the lamb bar until I am sure they are aggressive enough to get their full share. When I have only a handful of bottle babies, I don't even mess with the lamb bar because I really enjoy the timeI spend bottle feeding them. Most of my kids are dam raised. I bottle raise kids when my goats have more than two kids or I want a doeling especially tame for show, or if I need to pull a kid for either it's or it's mother's health reasons.
Swiss breeds of goats need to be disbudded sooner than Nubians as their horns seem to grow faster. Mine are mostly Nubians and I disbud at 4 - 9 days old depending on the size and health of the kid and the development of the horn buds. males grow horns faster. I had a tiny Nubian doeling I didn't disbud til she was about 2 weeks old because she was too small to fit in the box and her horn buds still weren't that big when I did it. My La Mancha babies needed to be done at 4 days old. Good luck with your babies. They sure are sweet.