Help The Situation Really Has Got Worse!

Goat Freak · #1 10/11/05, 04:53 PM

if anybody remembers the posts, help i think that the situation just got worse, my little 6 month old goat, mutt, just had a baby girl! The baby is having troubles with her back legs. will frozen clustuom be o.k. She is doing fine, really pretty, and she is walking good except for the lback legs. The mom will NOT let her nurse, and her teats are too small and too far to the ground anyway, she is really short. if we warm it up? Please, I need help I do not want this baby to die or to have problems. Please pray for her she needs all the help we can give her.

Jen H · #2 10/11/05, 05:28 PM

The frozen colostrum will work fine. Warm it up to body temperature, the way you would a human's baby bottle. With the mom that young, she may not have any energy to spare for making milk along with making the baby and growing herself. Keep trying her, though, she may bag up in the next couple of days.

Do you have anybody else in milk right now? Do any of your neighbors have milk goats? Maybe someone's sheep is still giving some milk? Whole cow's milk will work if you can't find a handy goat or sheep in milk. The milk replacer they sell in the feed stores would be my last choice, but kids can and do live and grow on it.

Goat Freak · #3 10/11/05, 05:36 PM

The mom has bagged up, the only problem is is that she has a TINY UDDER, not even as big as my hand, and TINY teats, not even as big as a pencil. The grandmother of the baby is in milk, just had twin doelings about 12 days ago, by the way this baby is about 1 month premature, but looks as big as her aunts, the twin doelings. We have colustuom from the greatgrandmothers last kidding, about 4 months ago. By the way she does not seem to like the bottle, what should I do, I am making her drink, and she takes a couple sucks on her own, but what do I do. Thank you for answering though. Well by.

mary,tx · #4 10/11/05, 06:12 PM

I have occassionally had kids with weak back legs, usually when there are three, but I'm not supposing there was any more room for one kid with a doe that young. What I do is just keep standing them up several times a day until the legs get stronger, usually in only a few days.

When I have little small kids, I use a regular baby bottle for the first couple of weeks. Your patience and persistence will pay off. As long as the kid is not sucking well and only getting small amounts, do it often. In a day or two, it will get stronger and do better.

Be careful warming the colostrum. If you overheat it the least bit, it will turn to custard (voice of experience). Once she has some colostrum in her, you can give her milk from one of the other goats. If it were me, I'd just let the young dam dry up, and plan on bottling this baby.

Good luck.

mary

redroving · #5 10/11/05, 07:05 PM

Sounds like a premie problem. I have only had experience with sheep. The lamb was weak and it took 24 hours to get her to stand well and another 24 to get her to figure out how to suck. I ended up tubing her twice one day to make sure she got enough milk to make her stronger. I used the mother's milk to give the lamb its colostrum and to stimulate the udder to start letting down. The lamb did survive and the mama took over nursing as soon as the lamb got aggressive about it. I did have to give the ewe some molasses for extra energy.
Tubing is not that hard, you may be able to find one at a feed store, if not your vet may have one. I tubed about 4cc. You run the tube on the side of the mouth, then listen at the end for air sounds (puffs of breathing) in case you entered the lungs. If so just back out and try again. When it is successfully placed in the stomach you attach the syringe (I got a 25cc tapered syringe - looks like a paste wormer end) and depress slowly. When done you pinch off the tubing and pull out (that way no backwash goes into the lungs accidentally).

Goat Freak · #6 10/11/05, 07:06 PM

so you mean I do not have to keep giving her colustruom? By the way, what do I do for milk, which would be best, we only have one other goat that is laptating, and she already has two of her own and will not let me milk her. Thank you for the advice, bye.

redroving · #7 10/11/05, 07:09 PM

Have you tried milking out the young mother? Does she have milk? If so, by milking her she will get stimulated to produce more. As far as I know a few nursings of colostrum is fine.
My first time lambing young sheep sometimes hardly show an udder and have small teats but they do have milk and the lamb knows what to do with any size teat. Of course this is in sheep so don't know if this is true in goats.

Goat Freak · #8 10/11/05, 07:13 PM

No she hardly has an udder, her mother does, but small teats run in her genepool. It's pointless to try and let the baby go on the mother, she has teats that are basiclly in the back, they are so undeveloped, and she will not sit still for very long, all she wants to do is to lick her baby. Right now she is doing good, but I just hope that she grows up just fine. Thank you foe the advice, you guys really are helpful, bye.

mary,tx · #9 10/11/05, 07:41 PM

My concern with the dam is not only that the udder has not developed, but that she is so young and still needs to grow. That's why I would dry her off and not try to milk. If you cannot get milk from the other doe, your next best bet is whole cow's milk from the grocery. I would want the kid to have colostrum the first day or so if possible, then I think milk would be okay.

If you go with milk replacer, be sure that you do not get soy based.
Also, remember to warm the milk for each feeding, to around 100 degrees.

mary

**mygoat** · #10 10/11/05, 07:56 PM

When the baby gets hungry enough it should start to take the bottle. i hope for the best!! there is stuff online called "mother up" and you spray it on the foster mother's nose and on her kid and on the new kid, and the foster will usually accept them. you could express ship it and have it by thursday,and have her on the foster later that day. If she doesnt like the bottle at first use an eyedropper in the corner of her mouth to get her used to the formula. If she doesnt eat by tomorrow, call your vet. You can also use the weak kid stomach tube, which your vet your vet will probably have, and he will probably teach you how to use them.
Good luck with her,
~Dona

tinetine'sgoat · #11 10/11/05, 08:39 PM

Sounds like you are getting excellent advice so I will help with prayers instead!!! You seem very attentive and I'm sure she is getting excellent care!!!

trnubian · #12 10/11/05, 09:13 PM

Give her straight colostrum (frozen is fine- heat slowly) for the first three feedings and then start mixing it with milk (whatever type you are going to use). Don't get the all purpose formula it will make her REALLY sick. Try to find a person with extra goat milk. Or just get whole cows milk. If you want to try a replacer try Super Kid or Sav-a-Kid. These are formulated specificly for goats. Don't use a lamb replacer.

Get some nutri drench, and BO-SE in her ASAP. Give her 1/4 cc of Bo-Se now and then again in a month.

You may have to tube feed her to get her to eat. Your main goal right now is to keep her hydrated. If you have to tube feed her do it.

Good luck with her.

dosthouhavemilk · #13 10/11/05, 10:26 PM

She needs colostrum as soon as possible. The stomach lining starts to close as soon as the umbilical cord breaks, but it gets serious after only five or six hours. After twelve hours, some of the large anitbody particular can still pass through and by 24 hours the stomach lining is shut ad colostrum can't do much.
Tube her if you have to. Get ahold of a local goat person if you can't do it yourself. She needs warm colostrum in her gut.
The Bo-Se should help the weak legs and you may need to tube her a couple of times before she has the energy to suck herself. I would just bottle feed her if it were me.
I agree with drying up the mother and letting her grow more. I thought I had a doe due and she would have been seven months old. I was not going to allow her to raise her kids, but thankfully she wasn't bred.
You can try putting her with the other mother but she really needs to be able to stand and nurse first, especially considering the age difference in the kids. To help with the bonding between the "new" mother and the kid, if you can milk the new momma and feed the kid her milk after you feed colostrum for the first day or so (in the wild momma would produce colostrum for close to three days, high energy food for kid) her manure will smell like the new mother and that doe *may* be more inclined to take her. Also, you can smear some manure or urine from the doe's own kids on the baby. All trying to make the kid smell like the new mother.
Colostrum as soon as possible. Thawed colostrum will work fine..we've even used cow's colostrum in a pinch (saved triplet doelings this way).

Laura Workman · #14 10/11/05, 11:05 PM

Temperature is absolutely critical in bottle feeding new babies. If the milk is too cold or too hot, they will take a suck or two, then quit. If it feels a little warm on your wrist, that's about right. (Remember goats are warmer than people.) Also, the nipple on the milker has to have the right flow. Human baby bottles work well. Get the kind that won't build up a vacuum. And get a couple extra nipples in case you mess one up. Make sure the nipple has the right size holes. Try milking it, and if it responds like a goat teat, you have it right. Too much, and the kid will choke. Too little, and they'll get discouraged and give up.

By the way, unless the doe is seriously depleted at this point, I would encourage the kid to nurse from the doe. Of course she has a small udder at this point, she hasn't had time to build up capacity. And small teats are actually easier for little kids to deal with. With a tiny kid taking lots of small feedings during the day, she should do fine. You can supplement with the bottle if you think it's necessary. Just give the doe the best feed you can manage (alfalfa pellets are WONDERFUL, also good grass hay and a good loose mineral). After a few days, separate the kid at night to give the doe a chance to eat in peace. Be sure to put the kid where she can see the doe and vice versa, but not nurse. Good luck!

Milking Mom · #15 10/12/05, 08:03 AM

Go ahead and give the baby the colostrum. If you have 8-16 ounces go ahead and make sure she drinks all of it. If she won't drink it from the bottle tube feed it to her. The colostrum is very important. You can give the baby 1/4 cc Bo-Se. This will prevent white muscle disease, lack of selenium. I too would encourage the mom to nurse the baby if she will. But if it is obvious that the baby isn't getting enough to eat you will have to get it on the bottle. Try a pritchart nipple. It is smaller. Excellent advice given already. You can raise one on Whole milk from the grocery store if Mom doesn't nurse.

Goat Freak · #16 10/12/05, 09:32 AM

Guys thank you for al hte advice, and I am happy to anoujnce htat hte situation is now basiclly over. We put the baby in with her mother, my parents would not let her stay in the house or let us stay up all night to make sure that the baby got milk. Well this morning I went out there and Lola was letting the baby have milk, while she was licking her, also when a cat came up toi the baby she immedintly chased it off, then came back so hte baby could have more milk! She is being such a ggod girl, funny thing is is that the baby looks more like the granma mixed with the father, SOO CUTE. Apparently sometime in hte night though the baby learned how to coop with the small teats, bends her head to the side and eats. By the way, the mother DOES have milk, just not a lot, but maybe more will come as the baby starts wacking it. THey are so cute together, I will try to find out how to post so that all of you can see. Thank you, all of you. Well bye now.
Goat Freak

Goat Freak · #17 10/12/05, 09:37 AM

Oh yeah, just wanted to say that the new baby's name is Ivy, because she has a "I" on her forehead.

moosemaniac · #18 10/12/05, 09:47 AM

What about a selenium deficiency?

Ruth

Goat Freak · #19 10/12/05, 10:00 AM

I am sorry, but what is a selenium deficiency?

mamahen · #20 10/12/05, 10:27 AM

Selenium is a mineral that causes weak legs in goats. If your doe was lacking the mineral when she was pregnant, her baby (Ivy) could have this defincey.

The solution (if that is what's wrong) is a BOSE shot. BUT be careful because you can overdose & kill. Also you could put in a mineral block for cattle, (not sheep & goat one), they are only around $5 at Tractor Supply Stores. I got the one with a little molasses & grain in it. They ate like crazy, then slacked off.

How about taping popcicle sticks to her legs? Use the athletic tape that sticks to itself, with no adhesive on the tape. That way it won't stick to her fur. Tape them up & see if that helps.

Tricia