Georgie's health

[Jamie Hodges]

I have a 23 year old Missouri Fox Trotter that just aborted on Friday. Very sad day for us. We called the vet out cause her after birth wasn't coming out. Examining her, he found a twin. He also discovered she's missing her back bottom teeth. He explained that the top ones keep growing and cause problems with her getting enough food. My husband and I started noticing her getting real thin 2 weeks prior. He started upping her grain and hay. Fed her a pregnant mare supplement. Vet said the combination of her nutrition, the weather, the twins and her teeth were all to blame. We feel awful. We got Georgie 2 years ago. The gentleman we got her from had used her as a brood mare (correct terminology?) he bred her then in hopes of a palomino foal. Gave her to us a few months after she was bred for a place for her to retire. She carried to term but foaled in the night and we woke up to a dead palomino colt. He was really large so we think she had complications delivering. My questions are; does she needs some vitamins or supplements, what is the best way to put weight on her (we are bringing her in to the vet to fix her teeth), and does she need bred again. Personally, I think no. More because I can't deal with another loss. I've never had horses before, but my husband has. We both have a lot to learn. Any suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks.

[Teej]

Getting her teeth fixed will be a huge help in her overall well being. Equine Sr. is much easier for an oldster with missing teeth to chew and digest. Make sure her hay is good quality and not stemmy.

With her age, health and weight issues she'd probably be better off being retired from being a brood mare.

[where I want to]

No need for breeding ever. She does need her teeth taken care of if you haven't already. That is very important- supremely important.
I have a 23 year old MFT who is much loved. And most of them are pretty easy keepers. So, with good feed and a close watch that she has no uterine infection, there's a good chance she can become fat and sassy.
What you do has a lot to do with what food sources she has but if she can't grind her food because she has no lower molars, she will need a special diet that older horses get that is easy to digest.
What did the vet recommend?

[SFM in KY]

I would also suggest that she be retired from broodmare status. I've had mares that foaled with no issues until they were 25 or so, but once they reach the late teens or early 20s, it seems as if once they have a 'problem pregnancy' they simply do not get back to healthy reproductive status. Age affects everything and it seems as if once one thing goes wrong, more starts going wrong.

I've got one mare the same age and while she hasn't had a problem, she did not settle last year. I'm going to try again this season, but without any 'heroic' measures ... if she settles, fine, if not, she's entitled to her retirement.

[Jamie Hodges]

Originally Posted by where I want to

No need for breeding ever. She does need her teeth taken care of if you haven't already. That is very important- supremely important.

I have a 23 year old MFT who is much loved. And most of them are pretty easy keepers. So, with good feed and a close watch that she has no uterine infection, there's a good chance she can become fat and sassy.

What you do has a lot to do with what food sources she has but if she can't grind her food because she has no lower molars, she will need a special diet that older horses get that is easy to digest.

What did the vet recommend?

He recommended the equine sr food which I picked up Friday and started her on, along with penicillin. He also doesn't want us to move her for a few weeks. I wanted to schedule her the next day to get her teeth fixed, but I understand not moving her. I didn't think about asking about any vitamins or supplements. Always think of questions later. We have another mare that is 13 that we can breed, if we so desire. She was bred at the same time as Georgie, but I don't think it took. Georgie won't be bred again. It almost killed her this time. Almost killed me to watch her go through it. I want her to live out the remainder of her life happy and healthy..

[where I want to]

Originally Posted by Jamie Hodges

He recommended the equine sr food which I picked up Friday and started her on, along with penicillin. He also doesn't want us to move her for a few weeks. I wanted to schedule her the next day to get her teeth fixed, but I understand not moving her. I didn't think about asking about any vitamins or supplements. Always think of questions later. We have another mare that is 13 that we can breed, if we so desire. She was bred at the same time as Georgie, but I don't think it took. Georgie won't be bred again. It almost killed her this time. Almost killed me to watch her go through it. I want her to live out the remainder of her life happy and healthy..

She sounds lucky to have come into your care.

[LisaInN.Idaho]

Assuming this is your husband?

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

As most know I had to leave home this morning until late next Tuesday. While feeding this morning I noticed something hanging out of my mare. She had aborted at 9 months. I found the little palamino colt and bagged him up in a feed sack. I had to leave so I called the vet to come out. He arrived a little bit later and while cleaning her out, he found a twin. Dead also. She had been getting skinnier and skinnier. I had been pouring the feed to her. I couldn't figure out why she was losing weight. Well today explained a lot. The vet said her top teeth are to long and need to be filed. She's not been able to eat correctly, we had a very rough winter and on top of all of that she had twins. I've been trying for 3 years to raise a palomino baby from my Missouri Fox Trotter for my wife. She wants one bad. (I tried breeding to a cremelo And it never took so ended up breeding to a palomino stud. The mare is getting older. Two years ago, she had a beautiful palomino colt that was full term and still born. This time TWINS. Jeez. My wife had to deal with that and has been bawling most of the day. Well, Georgie is permanently retired from breeding as of today. I don't want to kill her. Dang twins. If not for that we probably wouldn't of had any troubles.

My wife's statement today was "I guess I'm not meant to have one. We've had 3 die"

I think all the things. I should of fed her something different. Although I was feeding her a manna pro mare and foal supplement with her grain. I was feeding her orchard grass, Bermuda, and alfalfa. She had free choice minerals. Fresh water daily. I wormed her regularly. Maybe I should of had the vet out to check her over. Dang dang dang.

Prayers for my wife. Now we have nutmeg still not kidding. Hoping we messed up writing the correct date down.

You've had for 2 or 3 years and you continued breeding her? Your post kind of sounded like this lost foal was the result of the breeding that occurred before you got her.

I may be misunderstanding something here and I'm not trying to be mean to you because you sound like you are sincerely trying to do the best you can for this mare, but you should not be breeding if you didn't know enough to have a horses teeth checked. I'm glad you stopped breeding this mare, and you should not breed any others till you get some serious knowledge under your belt. If you want a palomino...why not just go out and buy one?

[Molly Mckee]

I like Clovite for older horses, keep their teeth done, worm regularly, blanket if it is cold. I think you live in TX, I blanketed more in the winter when we lived in the Houston area than I do here or did in WI. Blue Norther"s are really hard on old horses and they don't get the coats they get up north.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by Molly Mckee

I like Clovite for older horses

I've used Clovite almost all the years I've owned horses, like it very well, broodmares and all. I've also found something recently that seems to work exceptionally well also ... had a yearling that just didn't seem to be gaining the weight she should and someone suggested "Top Cat". Despite the name, it is definitely a horse supplement, a powdered probiotic mix that really did help the yearling and I've started the old mare on it as well.

[sidepasser]

Since the old mare is having trouble chewing, If you can find some beet pulp shreds w or without molasses added, you can add that to her diet and she will get the fiber she needs.

You should SOAK the beet pulp in warm water - I usually begin with a quart of beet pulp and enough water to cover it and let it sit at least 15 minutes. it will fluff up and then give it a stir and if the mare looks at it suspiciously, you can drop some of her regular feed on it and she'll get the idea soon enough.

Gradually you can increase the amount she eats over time until she is getting about half of her fiber intake from beet pulp. It is great for adding weight and increasing fiber for older horses. It comes in 40-50 lb. bags and can usually be purchased at any tractor supply or farm store. I do not care so much for the beet pulp pellets, I don't think they are as good as the shreds in regards to fiber.

But I have used them in a pinch until the feed store got the shreds in.

Oh and let the old gal retire from breeding or you may end up with a worse situation next year. I never breed anymore even though my mare is a world champion in her discipline, if I want another horse, I buy one already broke and ready to ride. Much cheaper than breeding, raising, and training one over four - five years and much more probable that I will get what I want. I bred horses for years and got out in 91 - sold the stallion and all the broodmares. I found it just wasn't worth it in the long run as people are not willing to pay what it cost me to raise breed, raise and train one.

[Doug Hodges]

Just to clarify. Georgie is a direct descendent of Lady Anne, Missouri traveler. Honey Bee, etc. She wasn't bred year before last. She was so fat last spring that people that came by swore she would foal anytime. One guy in particular said he has had horses 20 years and was ready to bet my wife that she was bred. (Ups guy I think) she's always been the lead mare. She has been super healthy on our place. She's the boss. She rules the farm and all the animals.

I grew up with MTF's. One mare in particular had foals for us into her late 20's and I believe even foaled in her 30's. I don't know how old she was when she died but I know she had a 35th birthday. Dad sold her in her late 20's. I lost track of her. She was a cremello named lightning.

I took Georgie to a breeder last year. He checked her over. He has several mares in their 20's. At that time, she looked as good as any 10 year old. I haven't looked at her teeth as I have been on the road since this happened but last spring her teeth were fine. Personally I don't know the vet that came out but I tend to trust breeders and people that have been around horses all their life (in this breeders case I think 65 years)

I truly believe if Georgie hadn't tried to give us twins that she would still be carrying a foal now and would be fat as a tick. It's hard on any horse to try to carry twins to maturity. The twins looked full size already. She almost did it. I had no idea.

Georgie is officially retired. She's going to get the pleasure of living the rest of her life with us. I fully expect her to make 40. I bet she will be her spunky self very shortly.

By the way, our real estate agent bought a Shetland from is when he was a kid. She lived to be 40 something. (Isn't that what he said, Jamie or was it 30 something) (I'm 49) He told us that at our house closing two years ago. Said he missed her.


Thanks everyone for all the advice. We just let our horses get old growing up. This is the first one I've decided to keep until death. I'm always willing to learn more about how to take care of an aging brood mare.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by Jamie Hodges

Georgie won't be bred again. It almost killed her this time. Almost killed me to watch her go through it. I want her to live out the remainder of her life happy and healthy..

Have the posters who are continuing to criticize (not all that politely in some cases) the OP for asking if she should breed this older mare back actually read this response which posted not long after the first recommendations that the mare be retired as a broodmare?

I'm afraid I don't see the point in continuing to vent regarding a situation that does not exist ... i.e. the mare is obviously not going to be bred back. I would imagine the OP is already upset about losing the foal, which she was obviously looking forward to.

[where I want to]

Lady Anne- that's something. I hope she gets back to her normal self soon. Teeth issues can be a real problem with older horses.
But it's not always so straight forward. I have an older post about my quidding mare. After repeat teeth work, turn out her problem was was ulcers. She's doing great now but it was a winding path to figure it out.

[Molly Mckee]

When we lived in TX all I could get were the beet pulp pellets. I let them soak between feedings. I will also feed horses that need to gain 3 times a day, so I would feed the soaked beet pulp, rinse the bucket well and start the next feeding soaking.

Years ago a friend of mine had a barn full of horses that had been loosing weight and an auction coming up. Her ex starved the horses, she got a court order to take them over until sold, ex took their kids to South America. Anyway, she feed every 6 hours, around the clock and got the horses back into shape before the auction. She couldn't postpone the auction as the ex had everything in hock to the bank.

If you need to put weight on a horse or just need to save some money, you can feed less (total) if you feed more often.

[LisaInN.Idaho]

Originally Posted by SFM in KY

Have the posters who are continuing to criticize (not all that politely in some cases) the OP for asking if she should breed this older mare back actually read this response which posted not long after the first recommendations that the mare be retired as a broodmare?

I'm afraid I don't see the point in continuing to vent regarding a situation that does not exist ... i.e. the mare is obviously not going to be bred back. I would imagine the OP is already upset about losing the foal, which she was obviously looking forward to.

Yes. Did you see the part where she said she had another mare to breed? I don't believe I was impolite at all.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

Yes. Did you see the part where she said she had another mare to breed? I don't believe I was impolite at all.

I wasn't referring to your post specifically and didn't find your last post impolite, you asked for more information.

The OP's specific statement was "We have another mare that is 13 that we can breed, if we so desire." (italics mine).

I can't find that she's stated she is definitely going to breed the younger mare or that the mare has any issues that would keep her from being safely bred. Under these circumstances, healthy mare of reasonable age that could be bred if the owner chooses, I'm afraid I do find the emphasis on 'don't breed/buy' a bit inflexible.

[Doug Hodges]

Both mares are registered MFT's. Both are Lady Anne descendants. They have excellent blood lines. I'm including pics of Angel. I'm even showing her teeth. The last two pics are Georgie after coming through last winter.

[wr]

I prefer free choice grass hay and supplement with either calf manna or beet pulp if needed and start small and gradually increase over a couple weeks. Because the old gal needs a dentist, I wouldn't expect too much from pellets or grain right now because she's likely dropping quite a bit so soaked beet pulp would likely be the direction I would go.

If not already in place, you should provide salt and mineral as well (deficiencies in both can result in a retained placenta).

I think it's wise to not rebreed her and I've found that once old gals start having problems, it seldom resolves.

I think it's perfectly normal to question what could have been done differently and after all these years, I still assess every mortality to ensure I did everything I could and sometimes the learning curve can be steep.

I imported heifers out of Colorado several years ago and one calf was sold before it was born based on genetics. Unfortunately, selenium is not a problem in my part of the county but is was where she came from so I lost the calf to white muscle disease and the only thing I gained was a significant education in selenium.

[Doug Hodges]

They get free choice alfalfa/orchard grass hay. They also get free choice Stockman brand minerals.

[Irish Pixie]

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

Just to clarify. Georgie is a direct descendent of Lady Anne, Missouri traveler. Honey Bee, etc.

My TB mare goes back to Man O'War, Nashua, Bold Buler, and Native Dancer but it's so far back in her pedigree that's it's nearly worthless to mention. It's like saying I have the same traits as my great great great grandmother- there's a whole lot of genetics between her and me.

Twins are always bad for a mare, and rarely survive birth. In fact, when caught on ultrasound a twin is usually "pinched" or the mare aborted.