Riding Command Cues for my New Arab Horse

TerryR · #1 10/27/13, 09:28 AM

I just got an Arab horse from Kentucky. I live in Cen IL. Was told he was a show horse at one time. Just took him out for his first trail ride here. When I cluck and just nudge his sides and lean forward he takes off on a trot. I'm used to that just getting him to go forward. Sometimes he goes backwards, and hes good at it! When he does take off, I try to get him to stop, pulling back on the reins and saying WHOA! Doesn't work at all. He slows down but doesn't stop. I have to one rein stop pulling his head around to my foot. He's very, very soft at neck pulls. I've ridden a few horses and haven't had any problems with control, don't know what kind of show horse he was, but is excellent when I pull left on the rein and put my heel in his back right HQ he just spins around in a 360 real nice.
Any tips how to que my commands?
Thanks for your help!
TerryR

goodhors · #2 10/27/13, 10:25 AM

Do you know what kind of showing he did before? Western or English? Doing such a nice spin, I would guess Western, but best if you could ask his old owners.

Once you find out, I would look around for Arab stables, find one that gives riding lessons and sign up. Trainer would best be able to help you with this, since most Breed show horses are trained similarly. Could enlighten you why this kind of cue is given to the horse. I am sure you are just "not pushing the right button" for the response you want, on an older, well trained horse. He is trying, but you are not speaking his language yet. With his buttons firmly trained in, it is better for YOU to get trained to him, than spend time retraining the horse.

Long distance guessing over the Internet is just that, guessing. And try as you will, you will leave out some important part in description of how things happen. Trainer watching you and horse, will see the stuff you don't notice, can do a MUCH better job helping you in person, than we could. Not all Trainers are equal, so if you aren't happy with results of first Trainer, find another. Can be hard to relearn your responses to horse situations, but sometimes it is you, not the fault of Trainer or horse. I would consider lessons to be GREAT investment towards my future fun with this horse.

Good luck finding a nice Trainer and better communication with your nice sounding horse.

where I want to · #3 10/27/13, 10:31 AM

The first thing I would try is being more subtle in my cues. Maybe he was trained for a wider range of responses and your cues, for him, are shouting "go."
Also with the stopping, try a bit more subtly, maybe vibrating the bit instead of pulling right away. Also trying sitting more firmly in the saddle, sort of pushing a bit against his rhythum to encourage him to slow down to match the pace you prefer.
It sounds like he is worried about it all and over reacting.
Then start ground work asap so he can learn from you, and you from him, how to agree on the cues.

Irish Pixie · #4 10/27/13, 11:01 AM

I agree with Goodhors that it's impossible to diagnosis a problem over the internet and suggestions can very very easily make things worse.

See if you can find a local trainer that can work with you and your horse. Please don't automatically assume that someone on the internet has a clue about what they are talking about, because as often as not, they don't.

where I want to · #5 10/27/13, 11:53 AM

Since a person asks for suggestions, I would presume that they are not expecting anything more than that.
If one assumes that any suggestion in a forum is a diagnosis and shouldn't be requested or offered, it's going to get mighty quiet here.

GrannyCarol · #6 10/27/13, 12:28 PM

Many good show horses are trained to very subtle cues. If clucking and leaning forward means "trot" to him, try just raising your energy internally and moving the reins forwards a little bit. If he's running backwards when you lean forward and cluck, he may be a reining horse trained to do so by the change of body position. Reining horses are VERY tied into body position and (from what I've seen, not an expert) will slide stop from a good run when their rider sits back and releases the reins to let them drop their head.

He may also be trained to respond well to verbal cues - see if he lunges. Try saying "whoa" and relaxing when you want him to stop and see how he responds.

You may also find he will go in the direction you look - well trained horses will sense every movement of their rider and respond to your directed attention, expecting you to be deliberate and focused in your movements. When you get your communications sorted out, it can be like just thinking and your horse does it, its very cool.

I agree that a trainer would be very helpful to you, also, can you ask the previous owner what he was trained to do and if they know the proper cues to communicate with him? Western will be different from English and from Saddleseat, an Arab might do any of them.

TerryR · #7 10/27/13, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the help Folks! When I have him out in the pasture or the areana and he sees me coming with a halter etc, he goes to leave. I say WHOA! And he stops on a dime. Doesn't work like that in the saddle though! Blows my mind.
Granny Carol, I completely forgot that! My last trainer always told me where your bellybutton points your horse will go! Never used it, and forgot it!
The original owners are in Florida now, left 4 of these trained Show horses with this lady, and never came back for them. She is finding them homes now.
I will call the lady that ended up with them and see if she knows, but I'm guessing she won't.
Thanks very much for the help again! I'll get back.
TerryR

SFM in KY · #8 10/27/13, 03:35 PM

If you have a round pen or corral where you can ride, you can experiment a bit. If whoa works out in the pasture, there should be a combination of 'whoa' and something that works from the saddle.

I'd start on the ground in the pen/corral with a halter and lead, walk forward, stop and say 'whoa' at the same time. If he stops, then put the bridle on and repeat. If he's stopping then, hold the reins in one hand under his jaw, put very light pressure on the bit and whoa/stop at the same time.

When he's doing that, then get on him and try the same thing, only when you finger the reins to put very light pressure on the bit, relax and sit down "heavy" in the saddle, think "seat of the pants through the saddle" ... and say whoa at the same time. Also, as Granny Carol said, many western horses are trained to stop without rein pressure, or rein pressure followed by a quick release, with the rider kind of 'rocking back' in the saddle. Constant pressure on the bit may actually be confusing him but if you work him at a walk in the corral you should be able to experiment enough to figure out more what he's used to.

Generally speaking, western horses are used to working without pressure on the bit and with slack reins. If he's been trained English, he's more likely been worked in a snaffle and with contact ... not pressure, but not loose reins either, just a 'feel' of the mouth with the reins. Then too, if he's been shown as an English pleasure horse or park horse, he may be used to a double bridle and quite a lot of contact on the reins, but some experimentation should give you some kind of clue what he's used to responding to.

Molly Mckee · #9 10/27/13, 03:51 PM

If he is backing like that you may be putting weight in the stirrups, telling him to back. Many Arab trainers train their horses to back by putting the stirrups slightly forward and pushing with your feet, not pulling them back.--if that makes any sense.

You don't cluck to an Arab in the show ring, or at least you are not supposed to. Finding a trainer, or an experienced person with Arabs is a good idea, it sounds the the horse is trying but has no idea what you are asking.

kscowboy · #10 10/28/13, 05:47 PM

You don't say how old he is , Arabs mature a lot later than other breeds. Six is still in the stoopid mode for an Arab. A lot of good advice by the above posters to train in a pen and initiate the cues you want to use. Ive always thought if you have a stop , 3 go's , a back , and side you can worry about the cute stuff later. My arab was six when i got him , another little arena dandy that was downright scary outside of a pen. He would run thru any bit. I put a hackamore on him and it was like a new horse. He respected the nose pressure and that was that , he is like driving a corvette with a joy stick with only fingertip pressure on his head and most times loose reins.

I think with the "hot" horses it takes some extended time to develop the trust and physical bonding so you can feel his quaking moments and you can relax and make him a better horse. IMHO you can't just will these guys like you can a QH , no disrespect intended to the QH folks.

Doesn't sound like you have any show stopper behaviors so just take your time , don't assume he knows anything and mold him into the horse you want. Might want a little training startup to get you going in the right direction . I am not a fan of a bunch of trainers. Ive seen a number of horses screwed up by multiple trainers.
I tried to set reasonable goals and timelines for training , think it keeps you disciplined and you don't try to work too many issues at once. Keep it simple

TerryR · #11 10/30/13, 05:29 PM

My Arab is 17 yrs old. I just got rid of my 3.5 yr old Arab, he was soooo crazy for me! Way to much energy! This new guy is really easy going, an real lover!
I still can't get ahold of the womanl I got him from, so I still know nothing about him. Actually her sister who lives 30 miles from me brought him home to central Il, so I've never talked to the Kentucky woman who took him from the original owners that moved to Florida.
I'm using a snaffle bit, and he seems to be fine with it. I will try the arena go and see if I can get a correct response from him. Thanks for the extra tidbits to try. He most definetly doesn't whoa when pulling back on the reins.
What is a Park horse? I've heard of it but don't know what that is. My Farrier said not to get a Park Horse. Hope he isn't one of these.
Thanks very much! Terry

Molly Mckee · #12 10/30/13, 07:36 PM

A Park horse is a three gaited English show horse with extreme action, and often pushed to be hot. However, while most have good action, they are trained like Saddlebreds to move the way they do, and some trainers do things they shouldn't. I'm not sure why your farrier said what he did, I've ridden a National a champion, both before and after she was retired and she was a great trail horse.

TerryR · #13 10/31/13, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molly Mckee

A Park horse is a three gaited English show horse with extreme action, and often pushed to be hot. However, while most have good action, they are trained like Saddlebreds to move the way they do, and some trainers do things they shouldn't. I'm not sure why your farrier said what he did, I've ridden a National a champion, both before and after she was retired and she was a great trail horse.

Thanks Molly! My farrier is a good ole 60yr old female, Best There is in my Book! This was what she told me, was to watch out for park horses.
Don't know why she said that!
thanks for your input about them.
I did look them up after posting here, and YES, they look beautiful to me, and I believe could make a great trail horse etc.
Thanks for your input!
TerryR