heaves and inhalers

lamoncha lover · #1 11/23/12, 07:45 PM

I've got a horse with heaves. She has done fine all summer but now that it is hay season she is a mess. I have brought her home so that I can soak all herhay and giveher ti hist granules. I want to start her on an inhaler. Does anyone use an inhaler on their horse and if so..what did the set up cost , what meds do you use etc?
I can get non prescription inhlares thru the net. Been researching and fining info. seems that you can use human inhalers and either buy a special Mask for a horse or it looks like it would be easy to make a nostril set up yourself. Any info appreciated.

goodhors · #2 11/23/12, 08:24 PM

The mask will work better, because you have closed her nasal system to outside inhalations. By this, I mean she is not going to get outside air in from the other nostril.

Problem with inhalers is that horse nostril is HOW LARGE they can get, and you are dealing with TWO of them getting air into the lungs. It really dilutes the inhaler meds, before they can work on the animal.

I am speaking from experience, we had an allergic horse who needed meds at certain times. When he was having an attack, I could have put my fist and forearm up his nostril, with room to spare!! He was about 16h, but those nostrils REALLY opened up during an attack. We did the mask thing and it was awful until he understood what we were doing to him. He thought we were trying to KILL HIM by cutting off his air after the mask was on. He fought and we had to hold him still before we could get the inhalers going into the mask. Two breaths by him and we pulled the mask for him to get outside air, mask air was GONE. VERY ugly situation to deal with. Then the pills for 10days after. And in the end, the mask and inhalers only helped for a bit longer. Nothing else wrong with him, totally sound, just the allergies. He got sensitized to more stuff each year, until he was either having an attack, recovering with meds from an attack (which took about 10 days to go thru the meds) and 1-2 days med free, before having another attack. We put him down. No kind of life to spend it on meds all the time, meds were messing up his system and skin. He was too nice to drag this out, attacks terrifed him, making him whistle trying to breathe, sounded like a Train Whistle! You could hear him whistling inside the barn from our house! Keeping him outside year around was not an option for us and our cold weather, and eventually didn't help much even in summer. Took about 3yrs for him to deteriorate and not be usable, from 1-2 attacks a year. So we let him go, which was real hard because he was a very nice guy.

We used the Aero Mask, way back when they were developing it. Horse was one of their test animals, we gave them feedback for changes in the designs and ease of use.

I don't think just spraying the inhaler into the nostril is going to do much for the horse. Horse may or may not cooperate with inhaler use. Med purchases could get expensive for you.

I am sorry about your horse, but you may want to consider letting her go. Meds are not going to always be helpful. The Tri-Hist is known for causing anhydrosis, non-sweating in heat. Horse can't cool themselves. Sometimes the sweating ability will come back if you stop feeding it. Other times the horse never sweats again! Heaves never get better with time, no matter what you do. Heaves is progressive, even if the irritants are removed from the horse. Sometimes heaves just may be less difficult for a bit. Watching them fight to breathe is very difficult for me, they get a terrible look on their faces, so I think letting the horse go is the easier way. I am not going to let them suffer with the problem endlessly.

CJBegins · #3 11/23/12, 09:38 PM

Gosh that is heart breaking!

lamoncha lover · #4 11/23/12, 10:57 PM

I was thinking of getting a pediatric (size small mask) and an aero chamber, putting the mask part on one nostril while blocking the other. She is a bit of a schitz..so not sure it would work.
I am sorry about your horse..It doesn't paint a nice picture at all.

Molly Mckee · #5 11/24/12, 12:09 AM

We had a mare with lung problems, not heaves, that we had on albuterol for several years. We used the liquid, not the inhaler, mixed it with jello and gave it to her like wormer.

She was 30 when we moved to wa state from tx, by the time we got to Denver she was fine. She lived to 36 and off all medication after we moved. She was allergic to something in the Houston area.

lamoncha lover · #6 11/24/12, 12:29 PM

picked up some rescue remedy at vets..guess its an antihistamine. Also on tri hist. Looking for albuterol as he will write a prescription and am going to order a inhaler chamber along with an infant mask...and give it a try if these shots from vet don't work. If she doesnt improve after that she will need to be put down. I am hopeful as she will respond as her breathing is slightly better and i can't hear as much wheezing.

Cashs Cowgirl · #7 11/24/12, 04:45 PM

My neighbor had a horse (her baby) that she put through all sorts of meds to try and help his heaves and severe allergies (as well as wetting all hay down). He was on anihist, albuterol, dex, smart breathe pellets, ac1 for the anhydrosis...and spray inhalers. He did ok for the first few years and then it was serious maintainence after that. She even built an air conditioned stall for him (which he hated and he learned to break out of). She passed away last year and left him to me. By this time he was maintaining on just the smart breathe pellets, albuterol liquid and Dex. He headed into the spring looking good. Summer came and he still hadn't started sweating...I took him off all meds and waited...still no sweating. We made the decision to send him on. It was the best thing to do. Personally if he were mine 3-4 years ago, I would have done it then. He was struggling then.

wr · #8 11/24/12, 04:52 PM

If it is allergies, I do know you can get actual epi-pens for livestock. The reason I know this to be fact is because back when the test pilot was working at the feedlot, he seemed to be quite allergic to something or a combination of somethings and the first time he reacted, he reacted so severely that the H of A vets that were on site didn't think they had time to get him to ER alive so they dosed him with a livestock epi-pen and it seemed to work. They second time it happened, the pen worked as well but he was asked to not come back to work until he figured out what made him stop breathing and conventional allergy testing never turned up anything within the normal range of testing.

lamoncha lover · #9 11/25/12, 01:31 AM

oops post dissapeared..but got a nebulizer coming this week and some albuterol. hope it helps. Now to figur eout a mask..any thoughts? think the horse ones are like 2-300 $. Not in my budget

Joshie · #10 11/26/12, 10:35 AM

I don't see how a human mask will fit. DD is very small so a pediatric mask still fits but I don't think it'd be very comfortable for a large man, let alone a horse. I also doubt that human dosing would be appropriate for a horse.

It's too bad that one has to inhale deeply with meds like Advair because they can help prevent problems. Can a horse tolerate Sodium Cromolyn? It can be nebulized. DD took that (with albuterol in the same neb cup) and nebulized Pulmocort for her severe asthma/chronic lung disease until she could properly inhale Advair. You might ask your vet about those meds.

RLStewart · #11 11/26/12, 05:39 PM

Well its probably too late for your horse but I've had good luck keeping my allergy prone mare from getting heaves by using the supplement Allergysaver. I still have to be careful with her because she is sensitive to dust, pollen, etc but she is definetly better on it. It also took care of 80% of the bug bite hives that she was always covered with all summer. I'm not sure exactly what ingredient in it helps so much as I've tried just the seaweed without much improvement.

Irish Pixie · #12 11/27/12, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamoncha lover

I've got a horse with heaves. She has done fine all summer but now that it is hay season she is a mess. I have brought her home so that I can soak all herhay and giveher ti hist granules. I want to start her on an inhaler. Does anyone use an inhaler on their horse and if so..what did the set up cost , what meds do you use etc?
I can get non prescription inhlares thru the net. Been researching and fining info. seems that you can use human inhalers and either buy a special Mask for a horse or it looks like it would be easy to make a nostril set up yourself. Any info appreciated.

I have a lot of experience with COPD (heaves) and I've used masks/inhalers. There are very very few horses that will accept them and there is no way of knowing how much of the meds are actually making it deep into the lungs and that's the only way they will work. If the horse isn't lightly sedated, at least when introduced to the mask, someone is going to get hurt.

Does the TriHist help the horse's breathing? If not don't use it the complications aren't worth it if there isn't an excellent reduction of symptoms. How long do you soak the hay? The hay shouldn't be just wet, the dust has to be soaked so it swells to the point it can't easily be inhaled. I switched out most of my gelding's hay for well soaked beet pulp and hay pellets.

Is she stalled? If yes, make sure the windows are open and there is fresh air moving at all times.

What worked best for my horse was monthly injections of the glucocorticoid steroid dexamethasone. After the initial visit my Vet allowed me to pick up the steriod at his office and give the shot myself.

As it turned out, my gelding had COPD and Cushings but we kept him comfortable for 4 years before his quality of life deteriorated and I had him put down. COPD is time consuming, expensive, and is progressive if your mare has an advanced case I suggest to put her down now. I'm not being mean or snarky COPD is an ugly thing for both the horse and the owner.

If you have any questions please feel free to PM me.

lamoncha lover · #13 11/27/12, 08:37 PM

I will put her down if she does not improve on albuterol. I have the nebulizer coming with albuterol, am picking up some steroids from the vet tomorrow
she is balnketed on a smal pasture with no barn access. I soak her hay at 2 hours in a tub of water
the tri hist doesnt sem to be doing a lot.
started her on smz in case we have a secondary infection...she sems slightly , very slightly better today.Is eating and more lively...as in moving. I made a home made mask...directions were found on internet..it will work if she will tolerate it. She is a bit of a pscitzoid usually.
If all this fails I will talk to vet about euthanasia///yuk:<(

2horses · #14 11/28/12, 10:45 AM

Sorry you're dealing with this, is doesn't sound particularly fun for either of you. I don't think I've come across a COPD horse before.

lamoncha lover · #15 11/29/12, 08:10 PM

i have the steroid dexamethasone now but have heard so many scary things about founder and stuff from it am afraid of it. She does seem to be doing better..still some heavy breathing but actually is getting her spunk back,
tri hist sounds bad. would the steroid be safer then the tri hist?
thanks for the input on other meds. I will ask vet

Irish Pixie · #16 11/30/12, 06:32 AM

I had never heard laminitis being a side effect of dex until you posted it LL so I did some digging.

Dexamethasone for Veterinary Use

Side Effects, and Other Fears

I do know from personal experience that during the 4 years that my gelding was on it he never had laminitis. He had Cushing's related laminitis the last 6 months of his life but he'd been off dex for almost a year at that point.

I hope this helps.

lamoncha lover · #17 11/30/12, 09:49 AM

ok..I am still waiting for the albuterol. I will start the steroids today. Thanks for the info iorish Pixie..it alleviated a great deal of my fear. :>) wish us luck. lori

lamoncha lover · #18 12/02/12, 10:58 AM

Just an update..
in a week she has gone from Not moving and just standing in 1 spot, no appetite, audible wheeze, very flared nostrils with red mucous membranes, rapid rapid respirations with definite exhalation thrust and bad abdominal breathing ..not good at all....
to
waiting for her food and eating with gusto, nickering to me this morning and coming to meet me, a bit of fire back, nostrils still slightly flared but mucous membranes very less red and aggitated looking, gums look pink, breathing is still fast but no wheeze heard with ear either on nostrils or chest.
I will NEVER hesitate to give DEX again. thanks for your help and concern on my girl Irish P

Irish Pixie · #19 12/02/12, 11:20 AM

Glucocorticoid steriods work incredibly well on COPD. I'm glad she's feeling better.

Cashs Cowgirl · #20 12/02/12, 08:59 PM

With the albuterol be careful...the risk of anhydrosis goes up when using long term. That's what pushed my decision to PTS Goldbar (he was on it on and off for about 6 years). The last two years was not good. He started sweating less last summer and I weaned him then, but his breathing was more labored. We went into winter not on it much at all. Then this spring I noticed no sweating again so I took him off. Unfortunately he never gained back the ability to sweat when I weaned him off. He also lost condition. W wasn't going to put him through our roughest months of summer so I made the decision.

I wish you good health for your horse! It's tough when they don't understand that we are trying to help them.