Cougar Attack

[Kazahleenah]

My farrier had one of her horses, a big appy mare, get attacked by a cougar. 200+ stitches, but no major arteries or anything. She's not that far from where I live *as the crow flies/cougar travels*. It's against the law to shoot one (if anyone knows about it) and the DNR refuses to do anything about it. How hungry does a cougar have to be to try taking down a 1300# or so horse? I mean, there are beef farms around with much smaller calves... goat farms, poultry farms... a LOT of smaller prey around than a horse!

[farmrbrown]

The 3 "S's"......?
Shoot, Shovel, Shhhhhh.

[SFM in KY]

Knew several ranchers in MT that had trouble with cougar on occasion. Friend of mine had a horse run through barbed wire fence, ended up surviving but permanently crippled.

Cougar generally try for a position to attack from above, they drop and bite into the neck/spine so can bring down a large animal that way. Not as efficient if they end up in a chase.

[Waiting Falcon]

A friend of mine had a bred mare attacked by a cougar in western Colorado.
The mare survived and the foal was born healthy but there was a lot of care by my friend.

Cougars are rather widespread now and yes they can take down calves. One was reported in Arkansas that carried a full grown goat over a 6 ft fence....

When they are out of their regular territory , I think they are rather at loss as what to kill.....they have been imported into many states by the F&G.

[arnie]

A cougar that can kill a 200 pound calf can kill your children or you . Watch out no matter what the disney movies say or the tree huggers .this is why our forfathets tryed so hard to kill them at any opertunity when out on the farm I keep my fathful mt. Cur dogs with me and fun free on the farm to protect my livestock which is my food supply .I wish we could reintroduce man eating lions and bears into the dept of fish and games peoples back yard to attack there food supply and children. When humans are homeless and children are hungry our goverment wasre tax dollars paying people to do this to us farmers. f you are having problems with cougarrs they were prably released by your tax money be careful they will attack you if given the opertunity . Thank you wildlife control :-)

[LisaInN.Idaho]

Originally Posted by arnie

A cougar that can kill a 200 pound calf can kill your children or you . Watch out no matter what the disney movies say or the tree huggers .this is why our forfathets tryed so hard to kill them at any opertunity when out on the farm I keep my fathful mt. Cur dogs with me and fun free on the farm to protect my livestock which is my food supply .I wish we could reintroduce man eating lions and bears into the dept of fish and games peoples back yard to attack there food supply and children. When humans are homeless and children are hungry our goverment wasre tax dollars paying people to do this to us farmers. f you are having problems with cougarrs they were prably released by your tax money be careful they will attack you if given the opertunity . Thank you wildlife control :-)

Do you get a lot of man-eating bears and lions there in the wilds of Virginia?

[oregon woodsmok]

I've lived all my life near cougars and you'd be darn lucky to ever see one. I've only seen one and that was with night vision goggles.

They will occasionally (very rarely) kill colts and attacks on adult horses are not at all common. If you have a cougar in your area that has attacked a horse, then I suggest you put your horses inside at night. The chances that you will actually see the cougar to shoot it are about zip. not to mention that you would have to be standing guard 24 hours a day.

[where I want to]

Or you'll be unlucky enough to see one. Mountain lions are everywhere here. Fish and Game will kill them if they are found too close to schools and sometimes will issue a license to kill to a land owner who has had stock killed.
Earlier this year, one killed a horse down the hill from me and later attacked another horse in the same place.
I have had bear scare me once or twice but it's a whole 'nother level of concern to stare into the eye of a creature who is cooly sizing you up for dinner.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

I've lived all my life near cougars and you'd be darn lucky to ever see one. I've only seen one and that was with night vision goggles.

Very true. There was a female cougar whose territory took in Pryor Canyon near the ranch where I lived and I think I only knew of two people who had actually seen her and I don't know of any of the ranchers that thought they had lost livestock to her. However, there was a lot of available game in the area and she had adequate hunting with the deer and antelope that coming down to the ranches just wasn't something she would do unless the food supply got short.

We had bears in that area as well, but I only saw one in the two years I lived there, although I would see tracks quite often.

[where I want to]

In California it is illegal to hunt or kill them without permission which is rarely granted. Before the ban on hunting, mountain lions were pretty shy.
But within a generation or two, they lost their fear. They will now sit there in the road and stare at you. They are calculating animals.
Most of the predation of domestic stock is reputed to be by young lions seeking new territory. Probably true. A man was chewed on by a young pair a couple of years ago. He survived because his wife attacked the one who had his head in her mouth.
If they are not hunted, they will be available for viewing. Not often but often enough.

[Kazahleenah]

The mare is doing ok so far... she can walk, a good sign.
There's not a lot of them here, but they are here. They have just as much right to live as we do, just wish they would stick to deer, rabbits, etc. But they hunt what is easiest.

[houndlover]

I lost three horses in one summer. One was a 4 week old foal, then two 30+ year old horses. One was dragged at least 20 yards (1000 pounds).

[CIW]

Utah is what has been called an incubator state for cougars. Specifically the Oquirh Mts. on the west side of the Salt Lake Valley. Due to the lack of public access.
For the past 20 some years a friend of mine has been treeing and collaring cats on those mts. for state and federal biologists to study. The collars fall off in 5 years.
He collared a 3 yo. male in winter of 1998.
Over the next 5 years that cat migrated north along the continental divide to just south of the Canadian border. Back South and East across Northern Wyoming, where he stayed in the Black Hills for almost a year. Dropped further South to the Niobrara river in Northwestern Nebraska. He followed the river East, clear to where it dumps into the Missouri along the South Dakota, Nebraska border.
At the end of the 5 year period the collar dropped off just North of of South Sioux City, Nebraska.
If an animal can travel that kind of distance in 5 years is there need for states to import them?
This kind of migration has also been confirmed by comparison DNA testing.
The reason that they are moving so far is the population increases in the West. It isn't unusal for a male to have a territory greater than 200 square miles. When the male kittens grow up, daddy runs them off. So they go find thier own territory. They may be on the move for years before settling somewhere.
Most males in the West don't maintain a territory until around 7 to 10 years of age because of that population increase. And they only keep it for a few years.
You want to not have Cougars in your back yard right? Get states like Colorado to stop banning the hunting of them.
And maintain lower deer herd populations. There are more whitetail deer than ever.
In the recent history those cat populations were maintained at a level of hardly, if ever, hearing of the problems like those you folks are speaking of.
Someone thought that those kittys were being treated poorly, and they need to be protected.
Although there are different beginnings, these results aren't much different than the wolf. Get them started and mother nature will do a good job of keeping them going.

[Molly Mckee]

We live in an area with both cougars and bears. We have horses and most of our neighbors have some type of livestock. We very rarely see footprints, and even more rarely see a bear or cougar or part of one running away from us. In the twenty years we have been here dogs running loose have hurt or killed many more animals of all kinds than wildlife has. Stupid people that think their pets are fine just running are way more dangerous than cougars, IMO.

[countrytime]

I agree Molly Mckee--just had 2 pitbulls running loose kill our Lab farm dog and then attacked the neighbors farm dog--he shot both--1 killed 1 ran--local animal control took it from the owner who was hiding it.Come to find out he was already due in court for these dogs attacking a lady walking her dog down the road. I have had pitbulls corner me on my own farm--it is ridiculous around here--next time I will shoot on sight if they are on my property. Thank god I don't have mountain lions--I would be scared to death!

[houndlover]

Dogs for sure are more dangerous than cougars. Many many cougars around here, but I fear stray dogs worse than any other predator.

[Zilli]

Well, I learned some things today. Such as:

It's against the law to shoot one (if anyone knows about it) and the DNR refuses to do anything about it.

I thought it was standard procedure that if your animals are being threatened by another animal (wild or domestic) that it is legal to shoot to kill.

I knew that cougars are hunted here (Washington State), so I pulled up the laws regarding hunting and/or killing to protect one's pets or livestock and I found this:

According to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, cougars are classified as game animals and an open season and a hunting license are required to hunt them (WAC 232-12-007). A property owner or the owner’s immediate family, employee, or tenant may kill a cougar on that property if it is damaging domestic animals (RCW 77.36.030). No permit is required.

Cougar Legal Status & Management - Western Wildlife Outreach

When I first moved up here, I got a job as a meat wrapper for a farm and game butcher (same thing I did where I used to live) and the other meat wrapper told me they had just finished cutting and wrapping a cougar for a customer.

Anyway, I have only seen one. A couple of years ago, my son and I were on our way home from town and one ran across the road in front of us. I mentioned it to a friend of mine who has lived around here all his life (and who hunts them) and he was like, "meh" - no big deal.

[Cygnet]

I live south of Phoenix is some pretty barren country -- it's wide open sagebrush flats, with the occasional ironwood or paloverde. In twelve years, I have seen mountain lion twice here. Once in a dead run between my house and the neighbor's, and once while I was on horseback. The last time I asked a Fish and Game ranger about it, he said they knew of several in the area.

Used to have a horse I'd ride out in the desert before it got so packed with houses. Found lion scrapes (kills) regularly. I'd usually stop to see what the lion had killed. Most of the time, it was Fido.

I figured the lion was keeping the stray dog population down, and there were enough stray dogs around here that it didn't need to risk taking livestock. Fido was easier.

[where I want to]

Mountain lions are not stupid preditors. If hunted modestly, they will shy away from human populations.
It's banning hunting that increases boldness.
The trouble with the idea that a good supply of prey will mean they will avoid livestock (or people for that matter) is that a good supply of prey means a good supply of preditors. If a mountain lion can find food for all her young without risk to her, then there will be more young needing to find territories and their own supply. So the contact will increase and increase until the point is reached where livestock is the choice.
I think what happens here is that mountain lions swing through the area on their territory patrols and suddenly all the deer that were everywhere disappear. Now some may be eaten (surely are- I've seen the remains) but I also think the deer leave the area until the lion moves on. This is just an idea I have after noticing the sudden disappearance of deer that were everywhere one day and gone the next. This might may livestock more tempting.

Also remember that lions are solitary hunters except when they are first leaving mom- I think that it is common for siblings to hunt together for awhile before seeking their own territories.

[bergere]

In Oregon,where I used to live... we were in a very active cougar, wolf/Coyote, Bobcat and Bear area.
(And my "Night" pasture fence reflected that...)
Fish and Game told me... because of them living on Livestock in the area... there were 3,000 more Cougars in that area(at the time), than the area could normally support, even if there were no people around.
There was plenty of wild game around... but why have a homemade dinner, that may fight back..., when you can have easy, fenced in food, that is less likely to fight back... McDonalds if you will. Most animals will go for the easy prey first.
They wanted us to take down what ever cougars we saw.... including that black panther someone dumped up in those hills....and Fish and Game was trying to take down for years.
Bears.. they said if they became a problem to your stock, you were also allowed to take them down.
Just let them know, and they would come get the bodies.
Fish and Game there, were great to work with.

Always tried to live with the Predators but every once in awhile, one would have to be dealt with.

Here, I have heard they have Bears... in fact my Farrier is having a problem with one.

Fencing isn't as beefed up in VA but should keep any Bears, coyotes or dogs out.
Biggest problem we have here.... is packs of Dogs. In Oregon, the predators would take care of any loose pets.