Bit questions (and other riding issues)

[TennesseeMama23]

I have a Spotted Mountain horse. He is pretty awesome. I am still learning. He came with a plain one piece curb bit, with just a tiny arch in the middle of the mouthpiece. He does ok with it-though we do have some issues (most likely my fault), but we went to a lesson yesterday and our trainer said that it he would do better in something different. She had this bit and we used it on him. He did so much better and was extremely responsive. Those bits are very expensive and I've yet to find one that looks similar in a different brand for a cheaper price.

From what I've found it is a barrel bit, and I'm a beginner. Plus he neck reins, and I prefer to ride him neck reining. Yesterday I rode with 2 hands. Is this bit as good if I'm going to primarily ride him one handed? I wondered if it would be confusing for him to have so much movement in his mouth while neck reining.

The biggest issue I have with him is paying attention to me when he doesn't want to. We were on a trail ride the other day and he accidently got off the trail a little bit. He started going too fast and ran me into a bunch of trees, I couldn't stop him, when I try the one rein stop on him, he plows forward with his head pulled around, then he'll rear up a tiny bit. Also, if he doesn't want to go where I want him to (extremely seldom), he will refuse to look in that direction and the more I try to make him, the more he shakes his head and spins the opposite direction.

I started working on flexing, hoping that he will learn to give me his head and maybe that will help him stop. I'm hoping a bit with more movement might help him? But I don't know.

[2horses]

Sometimes you get what you pay for. The link you posted doesn't work, but whatever bit it is (I'm guessing a gag, if it's a jointed "barrel racing" bit), if it works, buy it. You have issues with your horse, I suspect he's a bit sour and spoiled, and you don't yet have the tools to recognize that or nip it in the bud before he plows over you (figuratively). I suspect you have more than bit problems with this guy, though.

You can ride one handed and neck rein with a snaffle, my mare has never been in anything else and I ride her one-handed 99% of the time. She's very soft and responsive and gives to it easily both laterally and vertically, and neck reins like a dream, with very light cues. It's all about training.

[Rogo]

A bit is a tool, not a cure-all. No head gear will hold a horse who wants to run. It's training that does it. Find a friend or someone in your area that can help you.

We all have different favorite 'tools;' things that work best with our mounts. I don't use bits. I've always used a hackamore -- for starting youngsters, trail riding, and driving. It works for my horses, mules, and donkeys.

[TennesseeMama23]

Try this one:

http://www.kotrading.com/mylerbit-fl...mb33size5.aspx

Myler #89-11335

[Phantomfyre]

You can spend your money on equipment or you can spend it on training, but only one of those two things will actually solve the problem.

Why isn't he paying attention to you? Is he spooky or is he just testing you? If he's spooky, he needs work on staying calm in the presence of your confident leadership. If he's testing you, he needs to learn to submit to your confident leadership.

[LisaInN.Idaho]

Originally Posted by TennesseeMama23

From what I've found it is a barrel bit, and I'm a beginner.

Are you saying that the bit has a barrel on it or that it's a barrel racing bit?

[TennesseeMama23]

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

Are you saying that the bit has a barrel on it or that it's a barrel racing bit?

Barrel racing. The new link works, I think... (though I think you would call the middle part a barrel, I don't know)

[2horses]

double post

[2horses]

No, that's not what I think of when I hear the term barrel racing bit - I think you're referring to the roller in the middle is all. All you trainer did was put a higher port and longer shanks on him - translation? More severe. You can buy many cheap versions of that bit, but it won't solve your root problems.

You have a training issue, not a bit issue.

[TennesseeMama23]

Originally Posted by Phantomfyre

You can spend your money on equipment or you can spend it on training, but only one of those two things will actually solve the problem.

Why isn't he paying attention to you? Is he spooky or is he just testing you? If he's spooky, he needs work on staying calm in the presence of your confident leadership. If he's testing you, he needs to learn to submit to your confident leadership.

He's not spooky, he's pretty calm (though I did have a great idea of seeing how close we could get to a flock of geese, pretty close, lol... but when they flew so did we--I learned that lesson).

The confident leadership part is the problem, I admit. How can I be a confident leader when I don't know how to handle the little bit of disobedience? This is a great horse, and I don't want to ruin him (even the trainer says he is a good one). That's why I'm spending $40 a session for lessons (for both myself and my dd).

I am not stupid enough to think if I get a new bit my problems will be solved.

I came here for advice and thoughts, which, honestly, I am hesitant to do with some people's completely unfriendly attitude (not you or any other posters on this thread--just from previous experience)

[TennesseeMama23]

This is where I got the impression that it's a barrel racing bit:

89-L11335 7" Flat Shank with MB 33. Level 3. Lynn's Thoughts: This is a great bit for horses that tend to drop the front end in front of a barrel. Mares are notorious for turning on the front end. This bit will help hold them up and push them back on their hip. The rider's hands are important with this bit. The inside rein must stay close to the horse's shoulder in the turns in order for the mouthpiece to work properly. Called an indirect rein, pull toward your belt buckle to finish the turn. The long shank is a good choice for soft, slow hands.

[2horses]

How did you come by your trainer? Did someone recommend them to you?

[TennesseeMama23]

Originally Posted by 2horses

No, that's not what I think of when I hear the term barrel racing bit - I think you're referring to the roller in the middle is all. All you trainer did was put a higher port and longer shanks on him - translation? More severe. You can buy many cheap versions of that bit, but it won't solve your root problems.

You have a training issue, not a bit issue.

The port is a little higher, the shank is actually a little shorter than what I was using.

I read (not saying I have knowledge) that the middle size port height is not more severe on most horses, that is gives tongue relief. Only when you go up to a higher port do they get more severe.

Is that not true?

[2horses]

Any port is going to some into contact with the roof of the horse's mouth, how early that happens is what is determined by the port height. This bit works off leverage action - Lay it flat in your hand, like it would sit in your horse's mouth. Use you other hand to slowly rotate it in the same direction it would move if you were applying pressure with the reins. You'll see how the mouthpiece, because it is solidly fixed, will rotate forward until it is straight up and down. That's what happens in your horse's mouth. The pressure is applied to the roof, not the tongue. Almost all curb bits work off three basic pressure areas - roof, bars, and underjaw (action of a curb chain). It acts like clamp, putting pressure on all three simultaneously.

Tongue relief really doesn't play a part in the severity equation, IMHO.

[TennesseeMama23]

Originally Posted by 2horses

Any port is going to some into contact with the roof of the horse's mouth, how early that happens is what is determined by the port height. This bit works off leverage action - Lay it flat in your hand, like it would sit in your horse's mouth. Use you other hand to slowly rotate it in the same direction it would move if you were applying pressure with the reins. You'll see how the mouthpiece, because it is solidly fixed, will rotate forward until it is straight up and down. That's what happens in your horse's mouth. The pressure is applied to the roof, not the tongue. Almost all curb bits work off three basic pressure areas - roof, bars, and underjaw (action of a curb chain). It acts like clamp, putting pressure on all three simultaneously.

Tongue relief really doesn't play a part in the severity equation, IMHO.

This mouthpiece hinges at the barrel, each side moves independently, if that makes sense. I understand what you are saying, though, about the port height, makes perfect sense.

[2horses]

Are you sure it's like the one in the picture then?

I'm not seeing anything that would move, other than the swivel on the cheek pieces...



Unless it's hinged under the barrel, and that would be a might tiny connection. Even then, the roller on top if it keeps it pretty straight, not much independent action to be had.

[GrannyCarol]

I would work on the flexing on the ground with a halter until he is quite responsive to the lightest touch, then under saddle standing, etc. The one rein stop has to be trained into the horse, he needs to learn to respond properly to it by many repetitions and the release of pressure when he responds properly.

Also, you were mentioning that the bit would move when you neck rein. If that is the case, you are not reining him properly - it is likely much of his "disobedience" is more a matter of you are net yet able to properly cue him and may be giving conflicting cues. Continuing to work with your trainer to get a really solid seat and hands will help a lot. There is a lot to learn. If you don't know how to use your legs and body weight to back up your reins, your horse won't respond nearly as well, for instance.

Likely he's a bit confused by how you ride and is testing a little to see what he can do, how obedient he has to be. Glad you are getting lessons, it will help a lot.

[oregon woodsmok]

It's been a very long time since I've purchased a bit, but the rule of thumb was that a decent quality bit cost about 4 times what a cheaply made bit cost and it was well worth the extra $.

Cheap bits and knock-off copies of the good bits are never well balanced and they rust out quickly. Quality bits are balanced and they last forever.

Balance in the bit is very important. It is also important that the bit have a nice smooth finish.

I did most of my trail riding with a mecate and bosal, but I do like a medium port with a good smooth cricket in it. It helps to focus attention on the bit so the horse isn't daydreaming when I try to communicate with him.

No human is big enough or strong enough to physically force a horse. You must rely upon training and communication. The right bit for the horse should be aiding communication, not hurting the horse until he gives in.

Most of your communication should be done with the seat of your pants and not the bit.

[Phantomfyre]

Originally Posted by TennesseeMama23

I came here for advice and thoughts, which, honestly, I am hesitant to do with some people's completely unfriendly attitude (not you or any other posters on this thread--just from previous experience)

I hope I didn't come across as snarky! But I can see how it might've seemed that way. If so, I apologize!

Originally Posted by TennesseeMama23

The confident leadership part is the problem, I admit. How can I be a confident leader when I don't know how to handle the little bit of disobedience?

Do a lot of ground work with him and make him behave PERFECTLY. Yes, you *can* expect perfection! It'll teach him respect and build your confidence. So seemingly little things like making the horse sidepass or making him move ONE foot ONE step in a specific direction and stop will do a lot for you AND him. And it's a real pleasure to have a horse that is super-responsive from the ground. That respect will convey from ground to saddle. Teach him that when you growl at him from the ground, you mean BUSINESS! Then when you growl from the saddle, you'll get his attention!

Before you take him out on the trail, ride him a lot in a controlled environment where you are comfortable. If he's testing you out on the trail, he'll do it in the arena, too, so in that "safe" environment, you have to push back. That will build your confidence *and* teach him you're not going to stand for his shenanigans!

As others have mentioned, have someone watch you neck-rein him to make sure you're not inadvertently pulling back when you ask him to turn - maybe you were tense and pulled back while asking him to turn, giving him mixed signals? You might want to consider direct-reining him (2-handed) until you've built your confidence. If I'm at all uneasy on a horse or riding a new horse, I direct-rein until I'm relaxed and comfortable and the horse is calm.

The lessons you're taking are, I think, the best place to spend your money. Truthfully, though, I'd question a trainer that told me that a different bit was the answer. (Unless he/she were telling me to switch to a LESS severe bit.) It's easy to lean on equipment for security - I've been there! But don't let yourself build false confidence through equipment. Build true confidence through learning and training. In the end, both you and the horse will be better for it!

[bergere]

Took me a long time finding Maggie my driving mini the perfect bit she would like.
She was started like I start all of my horses, with the halter first, when she perfected that, she slowly was moved to a French link bit.

Problem with mini's though, at the time Myler was the only one that made good quality well balanced bits for a mouth that small.
First one of those I got her was a Comfort snaffle but like the French link she wasn't happy in it. Tried a couple of others...
Bit she would go best in and happiest in... Myler's high port mullen driving bit.
She goes perfect in it and I am a light touch on the reins.

I some times ride Dyfra in a bit (when she needs tune ups) also had an issue, she wasn't happy with the french link bits I had. Long story short,...
Found a Myler Ported barrel D ring bit that she liked a lot.

Not sure if it is with your horse but I have had many horses over the years that were very picky about the bit "they" were happy with.

Mine are well trained by me, Dyfra is ridden in a Lodgerope enduro bitless bridle most of the time. But with a bit she does have her favorite.

Could be a combo of.. he is testing you, he is only trained to neck rein and he likes and goes in one kind of bit best.
Lots of great ideas from everyone. Working him on the ground and having him do well will transfer to when you are riding. Then riding in a controlled area until you both have learned what each other needs and wants. ;O)