yet another newbie seeking knowledge

[rnmom23]

We are considering getting a cow to provide milk, butter, cheese, ice cream etc... for our family of 5. So tell me, is 1.5 acres enough for a Jersey cow.
How about a calf as well? Would a run-in shelter suffice? We would only like to milk once a day- keep the calf on the rest of the time. Sell the calf in the fall to pay for the cow's winter feed. Breed the cow again shortly thereafter- and so on... How much does it cost to breed a Jersey to maybe another jersey or dexter? How much on average do vet bills cost for vaccinations/inseminations/labor +delivery? Can a lot of this be done without a vet if we educate ourselves? And lastly, should we start with a calf and raise it ourselves- what age can it be bred and start milking?- Or would it be more economical to start out with a pregnant cow or cow with calf at side? I know this is a lot. I'd appreciate any advice,. Thanks!

[Running Arrow]

IMHO...

Unless one is REALLY into going back to nature, the time, effort, frustration, etc. involved in creating your own milk, cheese, butter, etc., is not worth it! That's what the grocery store is for.

Yes, raise a cow, bull, steer for BEEF and have it processed as a yearling at your local locker. Get your dairy products at grocery store. Still have lots of time to do other things.

[andy gingery]

when i was 13 years old my folks had a real nice jersey that old girl gave her share of milk .my wife never had any thing like that .we now have a mix breed holstine- milking short horn heifer that we are taking care of .the out come can't out way the fun that this little calf has been .the boy gets in to it as well .you can buy your milk an butter at a store.we know that some things can go wrong but the time we spend together cant be sold at a store . i am 38 year old now living the life with the calves that we raise together enjoying every minute.we feed the calves on the pasture an hay them together master card can't beat that.

[Ronney]

Willow (as always ) has given a very sensible reply. I also have to agree with Running Arrow up to a point. I milk my cows and take milk for the house and use the cream if and when I need it, but to go further and start making butter and cheese is a very time-consuming business.

Like Willow, I would think you would be pushing it to graze a cow and a growing calf on 1.5 acres - and keep in mind that the following year she would have another calf so you would be trying to graze three mixed age cattle on a very small bit of land. I'm not a goat person but have you considered milking goats as an option for your small acreage? They produce well and I know of many who would milk nothing else. I don't know about the market for goat meat where you are, but I have eaten it and it is very similar to sheep meat but without the fat. Ergo, you could still put milk and meat on your table.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[willow_girl]

Why thank you, Ronnie! Likewise, I'm sure!

Now, about this:

Unless one is REALLY into going back to nature, the time, effort, frustration, etc. involved in creating your own milk, cheese, butter, etc., is not worth it! That's what the grocery store is for.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but here are a couple things to think about.

One, if you're buying commercially processed milk, it likely has some manure in it. Yes, it's been pasteurized and the bacteria has been killed, but it's still sh*t! Seems there is always that one heifer who kicks her milker off right into the slop ... or the hose that falls off and lands in the gutter! Even a very careful milker doesn't always have a 100 percent clean filter at the end of a shift. And not every milker is very careful ... heck, I remember a remember a dairyman posting on here that he doesn't bother wiping the crud off the teats before putting the milkers on because "that's what the filter sock is for." YIKES!!!

When hand-milking your own cow, of course, it's possible to be very clean. And if there's a mistake (cow puts her foot in the bucket!) you always can dump the milk and start over ...

Another thing to think about is homogenization. I believe just about 100 percent of grocery store milk has been homogenized, which basically means "shaking it hard to break up the fat globules." This is so spoiled city people won't be inconvenienced by the cream rising to the top.

There is some pretty good evidence that homogenization results in humans not digesting the fat particles optimally, and this contributes to plaque buildup in the arteries. When you think how heart disease has become a major cause of death in this country, and the fact milk has been homogenized only for a couple generations,,,,,,,,. Well it kind of makes ya wonder!

I have a family medical history of clogged arteries, so I feel much more comfortable drinking non-homogenized milk.

I haven't made cheese yet, but hey, making butter and ice cream are FUN! Great family activities if you have kids, too. And have you noticed the price of butter at the supermarket lately?! :no:

[Hovey Hollow]

Butter is not hard to make, or time consuming. I just made some this weekend, granted I used store bought cream, but it only took about 5 minutes in the mixer. DD stole some whipped cream for her strawberries before the cream broke. Everyone really enjoyed it. I tried it out with store bought cream to see if it was something I would be willing to do if we bought the Dexter cow we are looking at. I know we could use the calves as beef, but I wanted to know if milking part time (leaving calf on mom) might be worthwhile. I think it will be.
BTW, yogurt and cottage cheese look like they might be pretty easy too.

[agmantoo]

Grazing a cow on acreage is similar to what people in real estate preach; location, location, location. I can run a cow calf pair year around on an acre and a half without a problem. Cheap land is cheap for a reason, usually it will not produce. That is why I caution people starting out to buy productive land.

[willow_girl]

Agmantoo, how do you make this work?

I'm curious because I have my cows on about 3 acres ... they will not eat the grass in the areas where they or the horses pooped during the previous summer!

There would be plenty of grass if they grazed the whole pasture down, but they don't.

[agmantoo]

Willow, I do rotational grazing. I have a good size beef herd and I have my acreage divided into many small paddocks through which I rotate the herd frequently. I force the cattle to eat a paddock down to about 3 inches tall within a few days maximum. This way there is little waste of forage. Naturally they eat the choicest grass first then the second best next. This usually means the clover goes then followed by the grass. If cattle are left to a pasture they will destroy the best of the forages by consuming it to extinction and eventually the only remaining crop to graze will be the lesser desireable plants/weeds. When the clean clover/grass is grazed to about 3 inches I move the cattle to another paddock. The 3 inch plants will response rapidly to regrowth as they have enough foilage for photosynthesis. With lots of paddocks I will not have to return the cattle to the used one for up to 4 to 6 weeks or longer. Once the cattle are moved, if there are weeds or tall grass remaining in the manure piles, I use the rotary cutter behind the tractor and I also pull a drag harow to burst the piles. The drag will distribute the manure and it will break down and with time and some rain will fertilize the pasture to where the cattle will eat everything the next time they visit. With the extended duration of absence from the paddock, the time breaks the life cycle of the parasites.

[myersfarm]

agmantoo i was wondering you said you don't return your cow to the used feild for 4 to 6 weeks......just how many cows you got and how many paddocks ...john

[agmantoo]

John,
Sitting here at the computer and totaling the paddocks I come up with 49 on improved grass. I calve year- around, 12 months a year. I sell feeder calves weighing anywhere from 375 lbs up to 575 lbs depending on needs, weather and time of year. In the fall I have to stockpile grass in the available paddocks and as the grasses go dormant I graze the grass closer and may even crossfence some of the paddocks in order to stretch the feed. It is my intent never to feed hay. I let the cattle harvest the forage. A thing that I do at seemingly odd times to the neighboring farmers is that in August, our hottest and dryest month is I fertilize. We have high humidity and night dews and this will give the grass a boost as it comes from its dormancy. At this time I have some replacement heifers, feeder calves from days old to market weight , mature cows and 2 bulls all totaling 130 head.

[myersfarm]

you have 49 padducks and that is a total of how many acres.......what state are you in if you don't mind me asking........john

[agmantoo]

John, the 200+- acre beef farm is totally perimeter fenced. I have 103 acres of good grass according to the fee charged to spead fertilizer. Some lower quality grasses are grazed off another less productive 45+- acres. Paddock size will vary from 1 1/2 acres to 12 or so due to some having areas that are not only grass but trees and pond sites. The farm has some wooded areas that give the cattle shade/loafing area but provide little feed. Depending on the time I year, I may force the cattle to back graze previously grazed paddocks that had some residual grass remaining. If I run into a crisis situation I have 90 round bales on hand as backup. This is a 30 day emergency coverage. To promote growth on the calves I have the single crossfence wire high enough that the calves can scoot under to adjacent ungrazed grass but the cows have to remain in the paddock that I have them. Realize that the above is not exact as I am constantly reworking some of the areas. I have one paddock that is being reworked to a different forage, one is a work area for some trees that were cleared to extend the grazing area, another wooded area is fallow where I have recently cleared and burned. I do spend approximately 25% of the gross income from the sale of calves for commercial fertilizer, chicken litter and lagoon waste. I feed no grain and I buy loose mineralized salt and I have rubs for fly control and I treat all cows once per year for parasites and treat those that appear to need additional worming a second time six months later. The body conditon score on my cattle will be from 5 to 6 year around. This farm is in the piedmont area of western NC.

[thebeav]

Agmantoo,
Thanks for the very informative information. Do you have water in all the paddocks or do you move it with the cattle?

[agmantoo]

the beav,
I am fortunate that I have water via small streams on the east and the west sides of the farm. One of the streams has a small pond on it. Pond water is used for watering the cattle during droughts. I have the paddocks laid out to where they connect to stream water by an "alley way" on each side of the farm. The alley/lanes are rather wide and I use them as a grazing paddock depending on which side of the farm the cattle are grazing. The alley ways are used to move the cattle to the holding pens when I need to work the cattle. All of this is a one man show and I average about 1 1/2 hours per day by my best guess.

[myersfarm]

agmantoo i guess feeding calfs the small amount is not all we have in common...i have 440 acres some in trees and i do rotaional grassing also i have 10 padducks ( been thinking of making it 20 ) but i only leave them in a padduck for 2 days then move them to a new one but if there is grass left in that padduck might be back in it in 3 or 4 days i am in the ozarks of missouri i also have a 20 head jersey milk cows that i milk and feed out dairy calfs..i run angus in my beef herd thanks for the info think i will divide and make 20 padducks i built my own ponds for the farm since i have a dozer and all i have to do is run one wire straight across the farm with gates every once in a while........thanks again john

[agmantoo]

John,
I have very few true gates. I use the sucker rod or fiberglass posts on the single separation wire for the paddocks and use the hairpin type fastener to hold the wire. I scrounged PVC 2" pipe about 7 1/2 ft long and I cut a V in one end. I just take out a couple of hairpins and place the PVC pipe over one of the post and reach up and put the wire in the V. If the grass starts showing signs of wear I move the PVC to another post. Works kinda neat and I can ride the 4 wheeler under the wire. This also lets me move the cattle from one paddock to another without having the cattle to exit the direction they entered. I suggest that you try it!