Me again with more questions!!

[Bubbas Boys]

I know there area lot of variables but does anyone have a ball park figure of how much hay one dairy steer would need in its whole life? He will be on 1 acre of pasture in the summer months that is white clover, and grasses. Don't beat me up too much I know what kind of question this is! haha

[Awnry Abe]

You won't get a beating from me. I think all of your questions along these lines have produced good information for the masses. This question, though, is the high school algebra test word problem from hell.

Some assumptions that you can correct and apply to your own formula:

1) steer reaches 1000 lbs exactly on his 3rd birthday, and subsequently dies that evening. Happy Birthday/RIP. (Momma-neglected dairy boys won't get there as fast as a cow raised/weaned beef cow.)
2) daily intake will be 2% of body weight of perfectly 100% dry matter hay. Reality is that more actual hay will be needed because of moisture content.
3) hay intake started at birth+60 days / 100lbs, and hay was it for life. Nothing more, nothing less.
4) will assume both a) hay waste (assuming you really want to know how much to buy, not how much he will eat). and b) available pasture offset each other and hence both will be ignored.
5) his growth rate is perfectly linear. No growth spurts allowed!

...drum roll...According to Bill Gates (got too lazy to look up the formula for area of a triangle and just used Excel instead), the final answer is....11,371.98 lbs. of hay. ...Wow. That can't be right. And my daughter wants a horse....

[Bubbas Boys]

Wow. Thanks Abe. Really appreciate it. That does not seem to bad for what I was hoping for.

[M5farm]

Originally Posted by Bubbas Boys

I know there area lot of variables but does anyone have a ball park figure of how much hay one dairy steer would need in its whole life? He will be on 1 acre of pasture in the summer months that is white clover, and grasses. Don't beat me up too much I know what kind of question this is! haha

I figure about 3000# a winter per cow. So once you solve the mystery of how long he will live you will have your estimate.

[Jennifer L.]

Around here I'd figure on 10 round bales a winter. There's a lot of slop in that figure: My neighbor with "old fashioned" Angus figures on 6 bales per cow per winter. But it's going to depend on the size of your animal and of course how long you keep him. So maybe 20 bales total to get him through two winters as an adult plus some "messing around" hay for when he's a calf.

[Bubbas Boys]

Thank you all!

[Awnry Abe]

Originally Posted by Bubbas Boys

Wow. Thanks Abe. Really appreciate it. That does not seem to bad for what I was hoping for.

Lol bubba. You are too kind. Don't use that number, my assumptions were pretty bogus. Most of all, I have no idea how much your 1 acre of forage will provide. I seriously doubt that you will waste nearly as much as you grow, so both should be considered individually. Plus I must have been was off by a day, because my answers don't agree. I trust the math more than the spreadsheet. Use this handy napkin-ware to gets a more betterish guess with better facts.


ImageUploadedByHomesteading Today1418351429.501384.jpg

Along the left of the Y axis are the starting and ending amounts of hay consumed per day over the course of his life. Those need tweaking, but not nearly as much as the "number of days in hay" along the bottom. I think 3 years is a pretty good approximation for a bottle dairy calf on grass, but you are going to have a lot of hay-less days because of your forage. The other real fudge in this solution is that the growth rate won't be a nice, straight line. But it will be straight enough. This isn't rocket surgery.

The area A is the base amount of hay eaten each day--2 lbs x 1035 days. I carved it out is way to make the math easy.
The area B is the amount of extra hay eaten each day because of growth-- 18/2 x 1035.

Is this calf alive and on the ground now or is it a hypothetical yet to be born spring calf? I would take a swag at beginning and ending weights of each winter season and use the formula above to get a pretty good swag on total hay consumption. Add in a waste factor. I have no guidance there. (Just as an aside, "waste" is a poor choice of word when it comes to hay--unless you rake it all up into a pile and dump it over the fence on your neighbor).

Words to live by: You can't swing a dead cat on a farm without hitting a geometry problem.

[gone-a-milkin]

Hey Abe:
Here,

cowculator.jpg


You can use my cowculator.

[Bubbas Boys]

Thanks again Abe! I just looking for an idea of the amount it might take. You have gone way above and beyond. Really appreciate it. The dairy said they have 4 calving in 2 weeks so we might have some that soon or maybe this spring. We are just really wanting beef for us and if we can sell an extra or 2 to pay for ours than great. We are so new to cattle of any kind that we are in need of any and all advise. Thanks!

[Bubbas Boys]

So let me ask. Is the lower up front cost for dairy bulls compared to the higher cost of beefers worth it in the long run when u figure the meat at the end and the feed input?

[Gravytrain]

Beef feeders are at a huge premium right now. So, if you don't have breeders it will be expensive to purchase. Since you have hardly any pasture, you will have to supplement regardless of whether you have a beef breed or dairy breed.

I can get jersey bull calves free or almost free.

[Awnry Abe]

Originally Posted by Bubbas Boys

So let me ask. Is the lower up front cost for dairy bulls compared to the higher cost of beefers worth it in the long run when u figure the meat at the end and the feed input?

It is still a simple math problem. It is very, very difficult to grow a freezer full of meat cheaper than a calf at the side of a cow when the cow is eating grass. Genetically speaking, all inputs being equal, a typical beef steer will reach the freezer stage much sooner when presented with the same blade of grass. Bit I have to say, milk is a wonderful thing, and the side-product of a freezer full of dairy beef is also a wonderful thing.

[Bubbas Boys]

So even though the beef breeds get there sooner do they eat as much or more than a dairy breed over there times growing out?

[Awnry Abe]

We call them "breeds" because they have been genetically cultivated for some particular advantage. For dairy, it is conversion of grass to milk. For (some) beef, it is efficient conversion of grass to meat. So yes, they get there sooner on the same inputs. Average daily gain for beef is much better than dairy on grass. Considering that beef feeders/finishers have spent a significant portion of their life on milk+grass vs. water+grass, have had more time to develop a more efficient rumen, etc, plus the genetics, you'll spend far fewer days feeding them. Yes, ADG is way higher.

...As an example, my two milk cows last year were bred to a hereford. They had very hereford looking calves that I raised to a normal weaning age and took to the sale barn along with a similar crop with that year's beef herd. To me, they looked nearly like all the other calves I took, with the exception that they kept their momma's hips just a bit. To the trained eye at the sale barn it must have been obvious. They were singled out and went for scrap. All of the others were in the 2-2.25 range, the dairy kids went for scrap at .90. On the sales ticket for them, it said "dairyX". I never said boo about it. I can further attest that those I have kept just take a very long time to finish on low input. But I don't care. I have time and lots of low input, so no more sale barn trips for these.

What you won't get me to state is that you'll end up with superior meat with beef breeds over dairy. I think our palates have been trained to a particular food supply. It takes some personal weaning to appreciate the differences.

[Bubbas Boys]

Ok, Thanks again. I too have the time, ambition, and the hay supply (friend with low price for us and our own this year) so I don't mind that the bottle Jerseys we are going to try will take longer. I just was curious if the higher up front for a beef calve is worth it since we can get Jerseys so cheap. Thanks a lot!!

[Awnry Abe]

Your plan makes sense to me. My next in line to crawl into the freezer is one pf those slow growing Jerseys!

[kycrawler]

well the way I look at it is I can get jersey calves for a little of nothing beef bottle calves are $500 and up that$ 500 will buy me an extra 2 tons of ground feed to put in my jersey

[Bubbas Boys]

That's the way I am looking at it but I am new so wanted some opinions. Thanks Crawler!

[blanket]

Jersey makes good eats. Slow to grow but not big eaters. I kill them at 18 months. Better figure 4 months max on a 1 acre pasture for 1 calf. You will need to mow part of it at a time to keep white clover from going sour. Also figure 1 good round bale a month per cow during the winter as they need more hay in the cold, and yes they will waste a lot of it unless you grind it and feed

[Bubbas Boys]

Great Blanket, I love have figures. So if we got 3-4 calves, what size pasture would I need to feed them very little in the summer? I could do rotation if that helps the acre to head ratio. Thanks!