how long to get the cornfed out

[SteveO]

Sorry about the strange title. I sell grass finished beef but I have a shortage so If I buy a cow how long would it take to get the corn out of it's system and out of the beef. Or is it even possible???
and as a side question how long do the steroids in the long release injection stay in the system and or in the beef. Or is that a for life issue

Thanks
Steve

[haypoint]

I don't think you can "get the corn out". This isn't a scientific issue, more of a philosophical issue.
All cattle are grass/hay raised. Most are finished on corn. It marbles the meat allowing it to be graded higher. You might try selling those corn fed steers as "Pasture raised", just finish the sentence "but corn finished" only when asked.
The common hormone ear implant releases the hormone in just a few months and it goes out of the cattle in a few weeks. However, bovine growth hormones exist naturally in all beef. So when alerting the low information public, be sure to phrase it correctly. No ADDED hormones. The cattle that never had the hormone implant have no less hormones than the cattle that got the injection.
Glad your business is doing well.

[lakeportfarms]

We raise grass finished Dexters and Highlands, and from our experience when we have purchased a cow to increase our herd that has been corn fed, it takes nearly two grazing seasons for them to adjust. During that time it looks like we are starving her in comparison to our cows that have long ago adapted to the all grass diet. I suspect your effort to purchase steers, wean them off corn, then get a satisfactory finished product will be difficult.

[Maura]

Not all cattle are corn only finished. We don’t have open ranges like they do out west.

My neighbor raises his steers solely on corn, which is a lot cheaper than hay. They are huge. In our area, the milk fed calves are usually allowed into the corn so that they get big faster, regardless of whether they will be pastured or corn fed. After that they are either fed mostly corn, or put on hay/pasture.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Maura

Not all cattle are corn only finished. We don’t have open ranges like they do out west.

My neighbor raises his steers solely on corn, which is a lot cheaper than hay. They are huge. In our area, the milk fed calves are usually allowed into the corn so that they get big faster, regardless of whether they will be pastured or corn fed. After that they are either fed mostly corn, or put on hay/pasture.

Most of the cattle in the Thumb are dairy. Most of the dairy calves are not raised on corn. I have seen huge piles of corn cob, corn husk and silk used to feed calves in the Thumb. Also a lot of #2 potatoes and undersize sugar beets are fed. Many thousands of dairy calves, from the Thumb, are transported to Texas to be grown out there. It is cheaper. They don't go to eat corn.
Corn isn't cheaper than hay. Perhaps your neighbor feeds corn silage. That is a fermented and chopped corn stalk, leaves and cob corn.

In this country, most beef calves are born on pasture, nurse, eat pasture and once weaned continue on pasture. Many get silage, too.

But if I raise my cattle on pasture, they are "Pasture Raised", even if I do feed some grain early on and grain finished. Most of the terms thrown around are meaningless.
"Contains no added hormones" is true of all beef, even those that got a hormone implant as calves.
" Contains no antibiotics" is true of all beef, except in the ultra rare case of criminal activity by violating the hold times following an injection.
"Contains no MSG, gluten free" is more catch phrase since beef does not contain these.
Cattle fed GMO Corn will not have modified corn DNA in it's meat. So all beef, fed GMO plants, contain no GMO. Therefore all beef is non-GMO.
"This bread contains no insecticides or herbicides" is true of all breads. But by stating so, it gives the impression to the low information shopper that all other products without this statement must be unhealthy. Scam.

[Jennifer L.]

Do you mean if you buy a cow to later resell as "grass fed" how long before she would be physiologically grass fed? I believe I've read it takes as short as 6 weeks to take a grass fed cow and ruin it as a corn fed cow going in the opposite direction as you want, so I would figure you are talking a solid three months to go the other way to switch over the kind of fat the cow is carrying.

Fat is actually quite metabolically active and "turns over" fast so you can build up the Omega-3 fatty acids in a relatively short period of time. And that's why people want grass fed meat. But if you want to keep a good market and reputation I would keep the cow over the winter and then sell her the next year and say she has been grass fed for the past year. I think that would satisfy most people and for the ones that won't want that kind of meat, sell her to someone else.

[haypoint]

If we go at this from fact based physiological standpoint, it would be a few months. But the same is true of antibiotics and growth stimulating implanted hormones. How long after injection must I wait to advertise, " No antibiotics", "No hormones"? a few days? A week? A year.
But in reality, we aren't talking fact based science. We are talking about feelings.

There are quite a few beef cattle raised in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. We are famous for our summer pastures and quality hay. Corn doesn't grow well here. Every week, feeders are transported to Gaylord Livestock Auction and sell hoof as ordinary cattle. For those that have "captured" some willing grass-fed beef customers, you might want to fill your trailer with some certified U.P. cattle. No-GMO corn up here.

[Maura]

Most of the calves born in the Thumb are Holstein. Some are not. We also have Black Angus, Limousine, and others. Corn is cheaper than hay. My neighbor grows hay, sells it to me, but feeds his steers corn. If you want a pastured steer, you have to look for one. They are out there. Dairy cattle do not put on the meat that other types do and I would not want one for my freezer. However, corn makes them huge. More muscle and a lot more fat.

[SteveO]

Yes it a philisofical ( I wish I had learned to spell) question. Butit also important to me I could very easily feed corn but refuse to. my beef would most likely sell faster if it was corn fed. I just bought some and plan to grass them over the winter they were already close to grass fed as it is so in my mind I should be fine. But in the future I may not be so lucky hence the question.
What are they selling for up north??
Thanks for the input
Steve

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by SteveO

Yes it a philisofical ( I wish I had learned to spell) question. Butit also important to me I could very easily feed corn but refuse to. my beef would most likely sell faster if it was corn fed. I just bought some and plan to grass them over the winter they were already close to grass fed as it is so in my mind I should be fine. But in the future I may not be so lucky hence the question.
What are they selling for up north??
Thanks for the input
Steve

Last week, Beef steers under 600 pounds, $225 per hundred. Beef steers over 600 pounds $150 per hundred.
http://www.northernmichiganlivestock.com/

Interesting choice of words. You could have said you chose not to, but you refuse to feed corn. That seems a bit strong. What is it about corn that evokes such emotion? I'm tempted to ask if you were beat up on a school playground by an ear of corn, but I think this is too serious to joke around about.

[arabian knight]

I was on a program by Tend R Leen that in 12 months you start out 12 of that complete mixture to 1 of corn.
At the end of 12 months you were at 10 parts Corn to one part Tend R Leen. And that was Great tender meat.
Now I have a mix custom made up and there last 4 months before its time to butcher I have the steers on Total Grain mix with no hay, just this grain mix. Been doing that for the last 30 years and wow what a nice tender steaks that are the end results. Course the highest of the grains in that mixture is CORN. LOL

http://www.tendrleen.com/proginfo.htm

[FarmerDavid]

Originally Posted by Maura

Most of the calves born in the Thumb are Holstein. Some are not. We also have Black Angus, Limousine, and others. Corn is cheaper than hay. My neighbor grows hay, sells it to me, but feeds his steers corn. If you want a pastured steer, you have to look for one. They are out there. Dairy cattle do not put on the meat that other types do and I would not want one for my freezer. However, corn makes them huge. More muscle and a lot more fat.

Could you please explain how corn is cheeper then hay? I've tried several ways of figuring it and I can't get corn to figure anywhere near the price if hay. You've said it twice could you please explain.

[DaleK]

I guess it depends on how you're selling it. Most people buying grass fed beef from small farms have certain expectations, mainly that the animal was raised there and raised on grass.
Sure it's easy enough to buy cattle and grass them for a bit and sell them as equal to your own but unless you're selling them as such you're conning your customers. Don't be surprised if it catches up to you.

[UpstateSC]

Originally Posted by DaleK

I guess it depends on how you're selling it. Most people buying grass fed beef from small farms have certain expectations, mainly that the animal was raised there and raised on grass.
Sure it's easy enough to buy cattle and grass them for a bit and sell them as equal to your own but unless you're selling them as such you're conning your customers. Don't be surprised if it catches up to you.

I thought that was the whole point of the question, to find out how long it would take until any animal he might buy would be equivalent to his existing cattle. Six months, a year, two years, never? If it tastes the same and has the same nutritional value, what is the con? I don't know if this is possible, but neither did the OP, which is why he asked the question.

[Gravytrain]

Technically speaking, corn IS grass...although it would be dishonest to feedlot cows on corn and claim they are grass finished.

I'm in the position right now where I cannot keep up with beef orders (or pork for that matter). What I do for people who want beef from me, but don't want to wait a year or more, is to buy 600-800# quality animals and finish them on grass. If the customer wants a lean beef, I'll give them lush pasture for a couple months. If they want well marbled meat, it will take 6 months or more. Either way, I disclose the fact that animal wasn't born on my farm and I cannot say what the animal was fed or medications it was given before I bought it.

If you want long-term customers, it's not wise to start that relationship with lying or misleading them.

[oregon woodsmok]

It sounds deceptive to me. The customer thinks they are paying for one thing but are getting another, and the "other" happens to be exactly what they don't want and are paying extra to not get.

It should be easy to buy pasture raised 600-800 pound calves that are ready to go to the feedlot. Just buy them off the grass and put them onto your grass and then corn or grain is not an issue.

[haypoint]

Deceptive is a relative term. Rationalization is a powerful emotion.
I think those that are promoting organic grass fed beef, but buying 800 pound feeders that might have been on grain are deceptive EXCEPT when they disclose that they know nothing about their diet prior to buying them.
But if you really want to avoid deception, you should also tell them that USDA standards for antibiotics to clear their system is a week and you have had the cattle a month or more. Would you tell them that commercial beef also observes these withdrawal times? Would you tell them that the hormone implant only lasts for the first few months and is long clear of the beef well prior to slaughter? But since that information makes your beef a bit less "special", we tend to be selective in the truth we share. We end up misleading folks, appealing to emotions with terms that make all other beef less appealing. Pasture Raised, Humanely Raised, No added hormones, No antibiotics are a few terms that we like to use to promote our beef, but the beef in the grocery stores is also pasture raised, humanly treated, the added hormones are gone, the antibiotics, if used, are gone. Not exactly scare tactics, but clearly misleading. Lying by omission is a bit strong. Sounds better when we call it Marketing Strategy. But, deep down it is mostly feelings or emotions and that tends to leave grey areas.

The answer to the original question is about 48 hours for the corn to clear the cattle's system.

[Gravytrain]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

It sounds deceptive to me. The customer thinks they are paying for one thing but are getting another, and the "other" happens to be exactly what they don't want and are paying extra to not get.

It should be easy to buy pasture raised 600-800 pound calves that are ready to go to the feedlot. Just buy them off the grass and put them onto your grass and then corn or grain is not an issue.

If you were referring to my post, In certain cases, I buy feeders specifically for people that do not care if it was fed grain at some point in its life, then grass finish it for a couple to several months. My customers know exactly what they are getting.

My point was you should be transparent in what your customers are getting.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Gravytrain

If you were referring to my post, In certain cases, I buy feeders specifically for people that do not care if it was fed grain at some point in its life, then grass finish it for a couple to several months. My customers know exactly what they are getting.

My point was you should be transparent in what your customers are getting.

OK, I guess I wasn't clear. I like that you are transparent. You tell them that you bought this steer a while back and don't know what feed or antibiotics it was given, prior to your purchase.
But are you transparent enough to also tell them that antibiotics leave all cattle in seven days and all beef sold at the grocery store is free of antibiotic residue, too? Just in mentioning that previous antibiotic use could have taken place, builds a belief or perception that antibiotic residue is commonly found in common grocery store meat. Not true. (well, it is so rare that if it happened, it would be on the NEWS).

Is your transparency so complete as to offer information, that while true, would lessen the perception of superiority for your product? While you explain that your farm raised cattle are fed grass or hay only, do you expand their education with information that most commercial cattle are fed grass and hay only, too, except the final couple months?

The public wants healthier food. With a perception that grass fed is healthier, a demand is created. Since the public often doesn't have time to study every detail of their diet, they have to depend on what feels better or sounds better. With honesty, I could take any steer from a feed lot and market it as "Grass Raised", (but finished on corn), "No added Hormones" (the implant went in at 4 months and stopped adding hormones a year ago). "Antibiotic free" ( the steer was sick a few times, but that was a while ago, so the antibiotic is long gone). These are word games and half truths. Sort of like advertising your beef as "Gluten-free".
But the public will eventually figure it out. Sam's Club sells "Antibiotic-free Chicken strips. No different from anything else on the market.

As the public learns these differences and how these claims of offering something special when it really isn't is costing them money, watch out. Market honestly, but transparency to me is also full disclosure. It is a hard balance.

Sell your meat on how tasty it is and the word of mouth from previous customers. But never stoop to slamming commercial beef with myths and suggestive statements. IMHO, you may see it differently and that's OK.

[Gravytrain]

Originally Posted by haypoint

OK, I guess I wasn't clear.

Ummm...I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Oregon woodsmok

But are you transparent enough to also tell them that antibiotics leave all cattle in seven days and all beef sold at the grocery store is free of antibiotic residue, too? Just in mentioning that previous antibiotic use could have taken place, builds a belief or perception that antibiotic residue is commonly found in common grocery store meat. Not true. (well, it is so rare that if it happened, it would be on the NEWS).

I don't claim to be antibiotic free, though I track animals that are treated and disclose that info if I choose to sell that animal. Typically I reserve treated animals for myself. I don't have to compare myself to grocery stores. Most of my customers are repeat and word of mouth about the taste and quality of my beef (and pork) keeps my animals sold well in advance. Not sure what your point is.

Is your transparency so complete as to offer information, that while true, would lessen the perception of superiority for your product? While you explain that your farm raised cattle are fed grass or hay only, do you expand their education with information that most commercial cattle are fed grass and hay only, too, except the final couple months?

Yes, that why it's called grass finished and not grass fed. Again not sure what your point is.

The public wants healthier food. With a perception that grass fed is healthier, a demand is created. Since the public often doesn't have time to study every detail of their diet, they have to depend on what feels better or sounds better. With honesty, I could take any steer from a feed lot and market it as "Grass Raised", (but finished on corn), "No added Hormones" (the implant went in at 4 months and stopped adding hormones a year ago). "Antibiotic free" ( the steer was sick a few times, but that was a while ago, so the antibiotic is long gone). These are word games and half truths. Sort of like advertising your beef as "Gluten-free".
But the public will eventually figure it out. Sam's Club sells "Antibiotic-free Chicken strips. No different from anything else on the market.

As the public learns these differences and how these claims of offering something special when it really isn't is costing them money, watch out. Market honestly, but transparency to me is also full disclosure. It is a hard balance.

Sell your meat on how tasty it is and the word of mouth from previous customers. But never stoop to slamming commercial beef with myths and suggestive statements. IMHO, you may see it differently and that's OK.

To be honest, I don't know that I have any customers who buy my livestock because they are afraid of antibiotics or corn or soy. I may, but not that I know of.

Most of my customers know me, or know me from someone else. Most of my marketing involves sampling. Yes, I give meat away. I have animals butchered and packaged in small portions to sample to people I know. Nearly everyone who tries my pork buys it. A lesser percentage of people buy my beef after they try it, but still a majority of those who try it, buy it. Grass finished beef has a richer flavor than what many people are used to.

Also, my customers can drive by my ranch and see my cows knee deep in lush grass and legumes, drinking clean mountain stream water piped into their troughs. They can see the pigs rooting and wallowing and running around and playing. They can see how their animals are raised.

In addition, my different beef customers want different things. Some of them want lean beef. For these people I slaughter at 20-24 months. Others want grass finished that is well marbled and very tender. For these customers I process at about 28-30 months...these portions are more expensive for my customers as I typically have to overwinter an additional year.

I'm curious when you've seen me "stoop" to slamming commercial meat? Other than stating that I think commercial pork is pinkish gray and flavorless, I haven't slammed anything. When I enter a nice restaurant and decide on a nice steak, I don't turn my nose up at it because it isn't grass finished, or whatever...I just enjoy a nice steak.

I get it...you don't like grass finished beef. Others, including myself, love it. I don't understand why you feel so threatened by people who do things differently than you are used to doing them. I don't ridicule you for the way you choose to do things, nor do I question your motives or wonder if you are transparent in your business dealings. I feel it is none of my business how you choose to do things.