Disappointing news!

willow_girl · #1 08/12/14, 11:24 PM

We found out today that Marianne ISN'T pregnant after all.

She had tested + in May to a March 3 breeding, but must have lost the calf at some point prior to late June, when my boss thought she was in heat (when she jumped his dad).

I didn't put too much into her bulling, as she'd bulled through the beginning of her last pregnancy, which is how she came to have a full-term calf right around the time we were getting ready to dry her off.

I decided to have her preg-checked again, just to be sure, and DANG! Came back negative.

There have actually been a couple cows at work who tested positive, but later came back into heat and had to be rebred. I'm not sure if the test is throwing some false positives, or they're just aborting early enough that it goes unnoticed.

So we are deciding how to proceed. The good news is that my boss is willing to let me borrow his equipment if I want to breed her again. And if she were to settle now, she'd have her calf next summer, not in December, which would probably be better for the calf, and a lot more pleasant for us while doing the milking!

So I guess I'll be watching for signs of heat. *sigh*

I think we still have a few straws of that purdy white bull in the tank ...

idigbeets · #2 08/13/14, 04:41 AM

Yea give the girl another shot... I'd say if she doesn't take next time though.... freezer camp.

Ronney · #3 08/13/14, 05:16 AM

I'm not trying to put the fear of God into you because there are many reasons as to why a cow will come back positive and then produce nothing.

I have a cow here which lost her first calf to the river. I milked her and ran her with the bull three months after calving. In the interim she was dried off and put out to pasture. I went to check on her and the other dry cows and saw my BC hauling on something through the long grass. I told her to drop it, which she did, and on inspection it was a mummified foetus. I carefully inspected the backside of all the cows and there was remains of blood on Simmy. I got the vet out as she was a young, healthy cow and shouldn't have been aborting. Blood tests revealed she was a Neospora cow. I then had the herd tested and her mother and one other cow not related were also Neospora positive.

I then did quite a bit of research on this and it's far more prevelant than realised, particularly in dairy herds. It is passed on from mother to daughter but not from mother to son.

I mention it because it's something that perhaps should be considered.

Cheers,
Ronnie

G. Seddon · #4 08/13/14, 07:02 AM

It's always disappointing when you think they're pregnant and then learn that they're not! Ronnie is right about neospora...many overlook this possibility. Carried by canines.

It's good that you tested Marianne again. A cow that tests positive at 40 or 50 days may not be positive at 4 or 5 months. Things happen.

Hope all goes well with the next try!!!

aoconnor1 · #5 08/13/14, 07:44 AM

Dang, sorry for the bad news:-(. Maybe better luck next time around...

willow_girl · #6 08/13/14, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idigbeets

Yea give the girl another shot... I'd say if she doesn't take next time though.... freezer camp.

Oh no; she will never go to freezer camp ...

There's a reason we call my farm The Home for Wayward Holsteins ...

Looking at her history, she had her first calf just 2 weeks shy of her second birthday. Her second calf was born 11-1/2 months later, meaning she settled on the first subsequent breeding. Her third calf (the one she aborted) took 5 months and several breedings to conceive ... hmm. That could be indicative of a problem, or, well, who knows?!

She's never had problems with her deliveries, or RP or anything like that, which is good.

We had two, possibly three, other cows who either had early abortions or false-positive tests this spring. Marianne was culled, two were rebred, and one we haven't tested again because she's 400+ days out, so not a candidate to be rebred. I'm keeping my fingers crossed ... I've seen cows bulling on the dry lot who, weeks later, delivered a calf right on time.

Cows are weird!

Bret · #7 08/13/14, 03:31 PM

I preg-checked a cow that I was certain was open. OK, I didn't have a clue. I could not feel a calf or other key indicators with my level of experience...non experience. She was not springing, not uddering-up and not unusually full. I thought I would catch her in heat and kept an eye on her. I went to the farm at noon to last week to check on a new acquired bull and found a nice new heifer in the pasture.

I will keep practicing. A white bull would help me know if my AI practice worked or if the black angus bull did.

Good luck.

willow_girl · #8 08/13/14, 09:55 PM

Was reading Hoard's today and happened across an article on polled bulls ... it occurred to me that if I used one, I wouldn't have to worry about dehorning.

Then I REALLY put my thinking cap on, and decided I'd look at polled JERSEY bulls! A Jersey cross would be smaller and go through less feed, and there's a possibility we'd end up with a pretty spotted calf ... I saw some really wild-looking crosses on a farm I used to test.

Select Sires has some polled Jersey sires in their lineup!!

Awnry Abe · #9 08/13/14, 10:33 PM

Boy, that stinks. I hope she cycles again soon.

I have one that has me starting to wonder...Uggh, I sure hope she is....I really need to get on that yootube and see if I can figure out how to palpate her on my own.

And I understand and can appreciate your "Waywards" patience. There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a pasture ornament. But let's hope she springs back into action....

idigbeets · #10 08/14/14, 05:53 AM

You can palpate when they are in their 2nd trimester usually... along the right side...near the rear leg.. hard to describe, youtube shoud have it though.

Or just pay the vet $20 next time they are out....

Chief Cook · #11 08/14/14, 12:28 PM

Sorry to hear the bad news. Hope she is alright and you can get a calf out of her on your next try.

willow_girl · #12 08/15/14, 07:59 AM

I emailed the district sales mgr. for COBA/Select Sires this morning about getting some polled Jersey semen for her!

tab · #13 08/17/14, 06:13 AM

I hope she takes with the next breeding.

Stupid question, how are they preg checked? My vet palpates or bumps. Did I really read about a blood test??? Good info on the cows bulling when bred, I had forgotten about that......

G. Seddon · #14 08/17/14, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tab

Did I really read about a blood test??? .

Yes, you did.

Biotracking: http://www.biotracking.com

willow_girl · #15 08/17/14, 10:25 PM

We use the new milk test offered through the DHIA:
http://www.antelbio.com/Milk-based_P...ancy_Test.html

I wasn't surprised to see that AntelBio pioneered this technology... they are a subsidiary of Northstar Cooperative, the DHIA I worked for back in Michigan. Real good, progressive company.

tab · #16 08/18/14, 07:38 PM

Have to check out those links, thanks.

With the milk that Marianne has been giving, maybe you can extend her lactation. Yumm, homegrown milk.

willow_girl · #17 08/23/14, 08:39 AM

You know, I kinda wonder about that, too.

At work, the cows get minerals in their TMR, but I don't know what we use -- I don't have a hand in feeding. Our ration is formulated by a nutritionist, though.

But when I brought Marianne here, I discovered she was NUTS about salt! She went through a 50# bag of range minerals (red salt ... I get it from TSC) in a month, which is the quantity my 3 cows out at my farm usually consume.

With my other girls, I put a coffee can full in a tub every day ... the next day, the tub is empty, but it's not like they come running over to lick up the salt the way Marianne does.

I mentioned this to my lady boss (the farmer's wife) one night while we were milking ... the possibility that their cows might be deficient? But she pooh-poohed the idea. Maybe I'll talk to the farmer about it when I go back to work Monday.

Last night we had to rebreed a cow who was 228DIM and had been confirmed pregnant a couple of months ago. She came back into the parlor after being milked, which is usually a sign, and when I went to chase her out, I noticed she had mucus on her vulva ... another sign. Boss looked up her records and said, "She's already pregnant," but when he saw her out in the barn bulling a short time later ,,,,,,.

Something's going on here, either with the accuracy of the tests (false positives?) or with early abortions. In only one case did we find an aborted fetus, and in that cow, there were extenuating circumstances ... she had a history of lameness, and then the trimmer injured (cut) one of her forelegs just above the hoof while he had her in the chute. (Grrr.) We put her in a hospital pen until it healed, but I think the stress was just too much for her, poor girl, and she lost her calf.

Oh, this week I noticed a cow out on the dry lot who was supposed to have calved 2 weeks ago and doesn't have a bag. So yeah, we got something going on here ..