Angus calves dont know how to nurse

[michiganfarmer]

My dad has 14 angus brood cows. They freshen inlate april and early May. Each year more and more of the calves are born and dont know how to suck the cow. THs is becomming a serious pain. Dad has had cattle for 5 decades: Dairy cattle bred A.I. untill the late 80s, then Angus beef cows bred with a bull. He knows how to care for cattle. He has never had this much trouble. 4 cows have freshened in the past week, and every calf was too stupid to suck.

Any experiences out there?

[topside1]

No experience here, but I may suggest that the bull submits to a bovine IQ test. Sorry I can't be more helpful Max....Topside

[Allen W]

I would say some thing is wrong besides the calves being to stupid to suck. I would guess a mineral deficiency or a low grade lepto infection causing the calves to be weak.

[michiganfarmer]

thanks Allen. Ill run that by him

[Wanda]

Selenium deficient is the first thing that comes to mind if. Are the calves on there feet and attempting to nurse? A hard birth with a big calf will sometimes slow them down. Do they do ok once you get them to latch on the first time?

[idigbeets]

We've had to send the dam into the squeeze chute, lock the headgate, and open the side door, and let the calf nurse. After that they usually get the idea. It is impossible to just go up to an Angus otherwise and help the calf. Angus aren't dairy cows :P

[topside1]

As we all know the bull is 1/2 of the gene pool, the second batch of wisdom...Topside

[G. Seddon]

I second Wanda's about hard birth and selenium deficiency. We have VERY low selenium here (proven by soil test and mineral panel on a couple of cows), so we give the calves a dose of Bo-Se and Vital E at birth. I'm still trying to find a loose mineral mix that the cows will eat enough of....an ongoing battle! Cows get Mu-Se about 8 weeks before calving, but I've learned that the injection is only "good" for 28-45 days.

I don't know about the lepto. Do you have a vaccination program for them?

[michiganfarmer]

THe calves get up as the cow is cleaning them. THey seem full of energy. Dad gives them all a shot of vitamin A,D,&E. He has talked about Bo-se, but I dont know if he gives them a shot of that. He keeps the cows on free choice Brood cow mineral, and the 14 of them eat a 50 pound bag per month during the winter when they are eating baled hay.

THe calves that wont suck dont even try. They act like they dont know what to do. They wander around, then eventually lay down, and just lay there.

Dad has a squeeze chute with a head gate, and side doors. That is how we capture the cows, and manually put the calf on the teat. He has 2 cows that will stand still in the pasture wile he puts the calf on them. THe calves will often not even suck once we open their mouth and insert a teat. We will open their mouth, squirt some milk in, and let go of the calf, to see if it will taste and swallow. Eventually they do. Dad will keep the cow in the chute for a couple days, and manually bring the calf to her side, guid its head to the udder, and help it latch on intill it does it on its own. THen he lets the cow loose in the barn wiht the calf, and watches them for another day to make sure the calf is sucking.

We worm the cows twice a year because they are on pasture, but I dont know if dad vaccinates them. Im sure he does. He has always been adament about preventative care for all his cattle.

These cows are all 4-10 years old. None of them have hard births.

[nduetime]

I have a 1/2 angus that is now 9 months and STILL nursing! The other half is Jersey but I attribute the piggyness to the angus....It seems way too strange that all of a sudden something that should be quite natural to all the calves is not there. There has to be some common factor somewhere, genepool, vitamin/mineral problem, something...

[CIW]

I agree with much of whats already been said and it sounds as though your father is a knowledgable individual. I might add to peddle that bull and purchase another to use this year. He may have a genetic deficiency. It would cost too much to have him genetically mapped. He is one of the major common factors to all the cows and calves. Also, what condition are the cows in at breeding time.
When your dad gives the shot to the cows, for bacterial scours (abt. 8 weeks before calving), give a shot of sellinium. The calves may also be carrying a bacterial infection, ineuteral. Your bull may be passing it to all the cows.
You didn't say what breed the bull was. Cross bred calves seem to have a vigor that pure breds don't always possess.
Have you talked to your veterinarian about any new diseases that are in your area?
I hope you find the cause and are able to get back on track.

[G. Seddon]

I agree that consulting with the vet about this problem is a good idea, and I hope you can get a satisfactory conclusion. This doesn't sound like much fun.

[michiganfarmer]

thank you everyone

[michiganfarmer]

Originally Posted by CIW

Also, what condition are the cows in at breeding time.
.

the cows are fat as pigs, and th ebull is Angus

[CIW]

Max,
I hope all works out for you and your father.
Another question. Was your bull a virgin when you introduced him to the cows?

[michiganfarmer]

Yes the bull was a virgin. He buys them in the fall when thye are about 800 pounds, then puts them wiht th ecows the following august

[MO_cows]

How often does he change bulls? If the cows are "4 -10 years old", it would seem he is keeping back his own heifers? If he is getting saturated with one bloodline maybe it is a heritable condition from that line. But sounds more like selenium or some kind of mineral deficiency.

[michiganfarmer]

He changes bulls every other year and keeps track of witch cows are from witch bulls so he is not inbreeding. He did recently learn that the guy he was buying bulls from does a lot of inbreeding. This last bull he bought from somene els to get away from inbreeding

[haypoint]

Old beef cows sometimes get their teats stretched out making it hard for young calves to get it into their mouths.

[billinwv]

Diets high in urea (common in protein tubs) and hay from over nitrogen fertilized fields can cause prolonged gestation, over-size calves and calves that are reluctant to nurse. Monster calf syndrome is also associated with this.(they never nurse). Maybe a case of too much good care. Hope this helps