Suggestions Needed for Training to Lead 9 mo. old Guernsey Bull

JulieLou42 · #1 04/09/14, 01:36 PM

Because of having had a knee replacement last Oct., when this calf was a couple of months old, I wasn't able to train him, so now he's pretty unfamiliar with humans, and I'm not real steady on my feet, or fleet of foot either, because the other knee also needs replacement.

My stroke-survivor son's been feeding him thru the winter, but he doesn't walk very well, not too steady on his feet either, being that his left side was affected by the stroke. We're lucky he survived the stroke.

I have the notion that, when I get him haltered again, we might be able to tether him to a neighbor's horse and lead him around? S'pose that would work? Any other ideas would be appreciated...

wannabfishin · #2 04/09/14, 02:12 PM

a good start would be to halter him and put a fairly long rope on him and let him walk around with it in the pasture. once he keeps stepping on it he'll learn that he cant go if the halter is pulling back.

**gone-a-milkin** · #3 04/09/14, 02:15 PM

I am curious why you feel the need to lead this calf?
It sounds like a dangerous situation for either you or your son to try at this time.
A 9 month old untamed steer is going to be a rodeo.
Please be careful.
[

G. Seddon · #4 04/09/14, 02:23 PM

I have a question: why do you need him to be halter-broken? He probably can be halter-broken, but I wouldn't suggest that you or your son do it, nor would I suggest tying him to a horse, mule, donkey, or tractor.

I'd work on getting him familiar with people again, calmly, teaching him to come into a smaller enclosure for his grain, same time everyday. Slowly get him used to being touched by your hand. This will help you determine if he has the temperament suitable for halter-breaking and leading. If he's the slightest bit aggressive, I'd forget about the halter-breaking, but I've only halter broken heifers, not bulls. Remember, safety first!

If you have a safe way to put a halter on him (probably best done in a headgate where you can adjust the size to best fit his head with the least commotion), with a lead rope attached that is long enough to be stepped on by his front feet but not his hind feet. Once the halter is adjusted properly, let him loose in a small enclosure where he can jump around and freak out at the rope without ANYONE on the other end. It should only take a few minutes. A halter with a chain underneath gives you a bit of leverage, but any halter needs to be checked regularly to be sure it's not too tight.

If (IF) he's relatively calm and laid back in personality, once he's "over" the fact that he has a halter on his head and a rope that keeps him from moving forward when he steps on it, you might be able to pick up the rope and "lead" him while holding a bucket of grain in front of him. You can introduce word commands (Walk, Whoa, Stand, etc.) Whatever you do, DO NOT wrap the rope around your hand.

That's basically a summary of how I trained the heifers, then I tied to a stout fence post, short enough that they could not step over the rope, while they ate their grain. Then I got them used to being rubbed with my hands, slowing introducing a brush, which they gradually came to like. I also used "treats" (Purina 20N Beef Cubes) that they really liked.

I'm sure there are lots of ways to halter-break calves; my method was quite slow. I never liked the idea of tying them to machinery to learn to lead. And I never tied them and left them alone. Be sure to use a quick release knot. They can get into trouble very quickly.

Another thing: cows have good memories. Once they learn things, they don't forget them, which is why I like the slow gentle method I guess.

Whatever you do, BE CAREFUL!

JulieLou42 · #5 04/09/14, 02:46 PM

Seddon: Thank you SO much for all that info!

He's already halter-broke, but without at present which I explain in my re-written posting, as I never spotted the original as having been put up here?!?!?

Anyway, you BETTER believe I'll be careful, as I had a 9 mo. old JerseyXGuernsey steer with attitude turn around on me just once a few years ago that scared the bee-Jesus out of me, and I let go IMMEDIATELY; he ran off. But was being moved to another pasture with his mother, so it was easy to get him back later on.

This is a pure Guernsey, so I'm hopeful he's docile, as the breed is known for.

I'll see what we can do with your suggestions, given what set-up I have here to work with...we're on a hill, with no small enclosures.

I've been giving him grain in the afternoon, but I have to tether his wet-nurse cow to do that, with her grain also, in a different spot. I think I need to change their spots, tho', because he's more on the downside of the hill than she is and I need him where it's more flat. [I only began giving him grain because I needed to get antibiotic into him because of the injury from his calf halter, but now he's looking forward to it when he sees me.]

I've asked a neighbor to come help with re-haltering him, hopefully this week, so that he doesn't get too used to being without one.

G. Seddon · #6 04/09/14, 04:27 PM

JulieLou42, you didn't say WHY this young bull needs to be lead trained.

Keep in mind that my description of halter-breaking involved Dexter heifers, not bulls, and probably much smaller than your Guernsey. Also, I've got a chute, headgate, a couple of small pens, and it's all on level ground.

If his injury from the previous halter isn't fully healed, he's not going to be happy about this!

Gretchen Ann · #7 04/15/14, 06:30 PM

A 9 month old bull does not need a wet nurse anymore. Wean him.

You could be setting yourself up for the problem of him sucking heifers when you turn him in with them for breeding. That will lead to blind quarters when they calve.

JulieLou42 · #8 04/24/14, 01:55 PM

She weaned him herself a couple of months ago, but I refer to her with that word because she's not his mamma.

I've seen calves nurse longer than that, tho'. Not easy for their mammas...and wears 'em down lots, so will not let that happen again!

Thanks.

JulieLou42 · #9 04/24/14, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabfisin

a good start would be to halter him and put a fairly long rope on him and let him walk around with it in the pasture. once he keeps stepping on it he'll learn that he cant go if the halter is pulling back.

I do believe I can do this! Thanks so much!

warhoop · #10 04/24/14, 04:46 PM

Put the halter and lead rope on him, tie the other end to your tractor or pick-up and very slowly teach him to lead. Done it a hundred times.

JulieLou42 · #11 04/26/14, 01:39 AM

WOW!!! Everyone's been SO helpful!!!!!

Praise God!!!!! A girl friend of mine, rancher-farmer's daughter -- a horse woman who's been around a LOT of cattle, too -- who helps me with housework now, was able to get this bull of mine haltered.

Practically a piece of cake, really. took her about 15 minutes. Here's how it was done, best as I can describe, if anyone else needs this method:

I knew he'd come for his grain ration, because of having to medicate him a few weeks ago, so I kept on giving him a quart of COB with a qt. of alfalfa pellets that he just loves.

I've had to tether his wet-nurse-mama to the post at the feed bunk and give her, her grain first in order to keep her away from his grain bowl. Then put his bowl of grain behind the 4' gate that's just beside the feed bunk.

He then came for his grain and began eating. GF got my longest lead rope [happens to be a red rope] and, after stroking his neck and sweet-talking him, which he didn't seem to mind much while eating, she began gently dragging about 3' of the end of the rope over his neck. Since she couldn't get the rope all the way around his neck and latch it to itself behind his ears, she then decided -- and I thought this was absolutely BRILLIANT -- that she'd make a big loop of the rope, latched to itself, and circle the 10" bowl with it, after which she slowly, gently sneaked it over his head. She then tightened the rope and tied him to the fencepost and from there, she was able to slip on the new halter and get it fastened. Then, he finished his grain..he's very slow at it...and backed up shaking his head to make halter more comfortable...he'd been haltered since his first day here last Aug. 9, so it's not as if he didn't know how it felt.

I was overjoyed to see this happen...and cannot say how relieved I am. I do hope I'll be able to tether him to the fence or bunk post as needed sometimes, tho'.

Again, my appreciation for all the info and help everyone has offered...Julie

MARYDVM · #12 04/30/14, 10:41 PM

This is a really, really, really BAD IDEA. Dairy cows can be docile, but dairy bulls have the well earned reputation of being the most dangerous and aggressive type of cattle to work with.

When the steer turned on you and you let go of the rope, he ran off. When this bull turns on you (when, not if) he will knock you down and use his head to smash your body into the ground repeatedly. There is nothing you can teach a 9 month old bull that will have any beneficial effect on his behavior when he is fully mature and the testosterone is flowing. The only safe way to move a dairy bull that is loose in a pasture is with at least one rider on a quick horse and 2 hard biting cow dogs. I've seen a Jersey bull do damage to a tractor a farmer was using to try and move him out of a pasture. They shot that bull in the field, since they couldn't get him loaded on a trailer to the packing plant.

Please give up the idea of halter training and working closely with this bull.

Rosepath · #13 05/01/14, 07:49 AM

A similar thread was in the sheep forum. A lady was determined to "save" a mean ram, it wasn't his fault, she was inexperienced, blah blah.
Hope she's still alive.
Hope you live. There's a bumper sticker that says Stupid Should Hurt, and sorry to be harsh, but trying to work with an untrained, or any, bull is not only stupid, it's insane.

Molly Mckee · #14 05/03/14, 01:08 AM

I grew up in WI, in dairy country. I don't know where you learned that guernsey bulls were noted for good dispositions, but they don't have them. Dairy bulls have some of the nastiest dispositions in the animal kingdom. Most dairy farmers quit keeping bulls when AI became easy to get. I have known of several bulls that were shot because they could not be controlled. They don't slowly get mean, one day they simply are. That is one reason they are so dangerous. Dairy farmers with generations of experience do not keep bulls, if you are wise you won't either.