numbers question

[TJadeI]

My husband and I are trying to purchase a farm in western washington. the one we are currently looking at (had way too many fall through at the last minute) is 10 acres with a 3 stall barn with a hayloft and small apartment. it has three other.... rooms? that I'm not sure what they are for. one looks like perhaps slaughtering/castrating etc? I'm guessing. if I get a chance I'll have to go out there to get decent photos.

anyway, my question. we are looking at getting a self sustaining farm going. we have 5 children, 2 dogs, 2 cats, and a goose(although not sure if he's still going to be around for long) we want to have cattle, horses, pigs, and possibly a couple goats.

how many cows would you guys suggest? we want beef and milk. would a steer, and a heifer be sufficient? we are thinking calve her, and have heard that they will calf twice a year, so a male would go to butcher, a female would calf again and then have two cows a steer and male calves would be raised for beef and females would go to auction?

or do we have that totally backwards? My parents had a farm when I was little, so I know the chores/work how to butcher etc. but the logistics I'm trying to figure out. would one beef cow a year be sufficient for a family of 7?

I know that to raise for beef they will be about a year and a half old before slaughter. we also want veal.

and what breed would be best?

we are thinking 2 horses, primarily for leisure. goats for blackberry/vine control. so likely two males. nobody in the family wants anything to do with goat milk or cheese. that's just.... yuck.

pigs for butcher. will ask how many we should have on another thread.

we will be raising chickens, and if this goose makes it. we'll probably keep him for a while. and 2 turkeys a year (thanksgiving and christmas)

thanks in advance

[G. Seddon]

Your county ag agent would be the best person to ask most of your questions, as well as other people who are living in that area.

My advice to you regarding livestock is go slow! If you start out with cattle, pigs, horses and chickens all at once, you'll be overwhelmed. Get your facilities ready before you get any livestock (fencing, water access, shelters, pens, etc.). Get yourself a couple of good basic books on cattle as well as any other livestock that you've not had any experience with before you get the animals.

[Gretchen Ann]

A cow normally calves once a year . . . if you can get her bred back consistently. Their gestation period is 9 months. There is a difference between the dairy breeds of 10 days gestation depending on which breed you have.

Most cows don't breed back that easily. Maybe beef cattle do, but dairy cattle don't.

You can raise a dairy bull as a steer for meat (we do) but it will normally take 18 months - 2 years. A regular beef steer has a faster rate of gain and will mature younger.

Good luck!

[TJadeI]

The farm we are looking to buy is all set up as far as buildings, fences, pens etc. And I've raised livestock before. Just never had to deal with the details. Like how many head to keep at once, how many per so many acres, how taking animals to auction works. But I know the day to day stuff, feeding, keeping chickens laying year round how to butcher what to watch for as far as illness etc. But since the farm I grew up on was established before I came along I'm not sure how to get from empty buildings and land to functioning farm.

[65284]

To each his own, but, unless you have plenty of money to spare, or find a place with more acreage, I would suggest deleting horses from that list.

Horses, in general, are hard on fences, buildings and pasture. They are expensive to feed, the grass, hay, and grain they consume is better fed to a productive animal, and vet and farrier bills can quickly get scary. They are usually under-used after a year or two and the "new" wears off. Too many are high dollar pets that just stand around and eat.

With only 10 acres my suggestion would be, depending upon how good the pasture is, cows, 2 or 3 Jerseys, Dexters or JXD cross. Stagger their calving times and you should have milk and meat the year around once they get into production.

In theory a cow could calve twice in a calender year, early and late in the year. But not on a consistent basis, it can vary but the usual is about a 283 day gestation period.

Goats, especially billys are a stinking aggrivation, even weathers are a royal pain very difficult to contain. By some means or other they WILL escape, and can quickly decimate gardens, trees, shrubs and flowers, are almost impossible to keep out of hay rings and feed bunks or any other place you don't want them. With 5 children, unless they are all small, some sharp pruning shears and gloves might be a better investment for vine/berry cane control.


Hogs are a pretty good idea, easy to raise and a relatively quick way to make and harvest a lot of meat. Table scraps, excess garden produce, surplus milk and extra apples/fruit are all good pig feed.

[TJadeI]

I know horses are expensive and hard on fences etc.

And the children are all real young. the oldest is 9 years old.

[Cookie2]

My suggestion is to think ... in the very worst weather (dead of winter, extreme winds / rains of the bumper seasons or the blazing heat of summer) how are you going to shelter and water them all? It is easy to have more animals when the weather is nice but on day three of stormy weather where the last thing I want to do is go outside much less muck out a stall and find another place to put the poo, I start thinking city life has it's better points.

[TJadeI]

housing is one reason I'm asking now how many cows/pigs we would need to feed the family. the property has a sheltered pig pen, about 40'x40' and a sheltered chicken coop about the same size. the barn as it stands has 3 stalls but also 3 additional "rooms" that could be easily turned into additional stalls with just an exterior door. although thinking about it they may already be considered stalls just don't have the exterior door because that side of the barn doesn't open up to the pasture. it has another "room" (not counted in that 3) that I think is for milking/butcher and???? it as a metal workbench, and what looks like a headlock in it. and a window along the top of the wall, under the roof... it's... odd. the barn also has a hayloft that looks like someone was going to convert it to a small apartment, and a hay storage area on the bottom floor. there's also a tack room. so I'm asking how many cows, and what breed/gender I need, and pigs to make sure I have housing for all the animals. since we have crappy weather about 9 months of the year. rain is a common occurrence. more than common, we are known for it. the barn is stilted (just like all the other buildings in our area) so flooding isn't an issue.

also, when a cow gives birth, does she need a birthing room? like a dog needs a whelping "area" (we had one growing up, but I don't know if it's actually a requirement or if we did because we had the space for it)

I grew up on a farm. I would much rather be out mucking stalls in the pouring rain/snow (which almost never happens here) or driving hail than live in the city.

[TJadeI]

also, being in western washington, our weather is pretty temperate. we stay between 40 degrees and 70 degrees, and only go outside that for about a week on each side each year.

so IF we get snow, it is only about a week in november/december, and IF it gets real hot, it's only about a week in august, and even then it's RARELY above 80 degrees. it rains... a LOT.. but we don't get the real heavy winds or nasty weather, we are pretty well sheltered by the ocean and the mountains. it's real common for farms around here to not have barns at all. I know of at least a dozen that just put blankets over their stock in the crappy weather at that's it. so even having the option of a barn is far more than most farms have.

[sammyd]

One cow would be sufficient. You can raise her bull calf to eat in about 18 months. If she throws a heifer you can sell it and buy a bull calf in or opt to raise her for beef. I would stick with one good cow and since you have 5 kids I would make it a Holstein just to have good sized animals at butchering time. There are lots of ways to take advantage of the amount of milk she will produce and if you aren't feeding her a super hot ration she won't make as much milk as one in a big dairy herd.
(edited to add) I don't normally promote odd breed animals since they often are far more expensive and harder to get hold of than standard dairy breeds but after some thought I would be remiss if I did not mention the Normande or Fleckveigh breeds. Old breeds in Europe they are relatively new to this country and can be harder to locate but are excellent choices for someone looking for dual purpose. They are comparable in size to the Holstein, are renowned for their ability to produce well on graze, and make a decent amount of milk. We ran Normande on the organic farm and they are a fine animal to have around.
With 5 children you may run short of beef towards the end of the year though.
But if you keep a few goats their wethers could fill in a bit. I would have 2 or 3 does and a billy.
With a bit of practice you could have the cow dry when the goats freshen and not miss having milk around...
I would buy in feeder pigs instead of keeping sows and a boar. A couple or 3 a year.
Buy in at least a hundred CornishX rocks every year Run em in tractors over the pastures supplement with some feed.
Get a dozen good egg laying birds and a rooster and keep that flock going for eggs.
Forget the horses unless you are getting a draft pair to do work.
You don't say how many acres are tillable and that will dictate how many animals you will be able to keep and have a shot at "self sustaining"
Make sure your pastures are in good shape. Raise an acre or two of corn for your animals if possible. Make a little hay if you can just for back up.
As for the barn. Your cow will be busy outside harvesting her feed. She can calve outside or inside. Might be easier for you inside but chances are she won't care either way. You will need a spot in there to tie her up for milking, breeding, and any doctoring she may need.
Pigs can run outside with a portable shelter and some electric fence or kept in a stall in the barn with access to the outside. We did ours later in the year to help clean up the garden.

[TJadeI]

Awesome. Thanks. All the acres are usable, and the house is positioned about 20 feet from the road, the barn is the opposite side of the driveway from the house, so very little of the acreage is consumed in that footprint. For other reasons we can't grow or feed corn, so I've been looking into possibly growing barley/ hay? And we don't intend to use goats for meat or milk, just a taste preference nobody in our family likes goat we've eaten it, but we'd rather go without than eat it. Lol. The horses would be for leisure but also for work. I'm assuming if you don't have a bull you have to find a steer to breed the cow?

[StarofHearts]

TJadel, for really good advice on goats ask this question in the goat forum, they may not be able to tell you how many head of cattle to go with but they can tell you all about the best breeds to clear brush and either keep as a pet/brush control or use for meat.

For breeding your cow, if you don't want a bull AI is used with great success. A steer has been castrated and cannot breed.

[TJadeI]

Oh. Good to know, I thought there was a difference but couldn't remember what it was. I'll have to ask about brush control. I had Nubians once before, but one had an undescended testicle before he was castrated and the vet believes it may have killed him. Oops.