Need help with milking a new girl

[petaddict]

This is Raisa, my new (and very first) cow.

Here's a little history:
She's 7 years old (Dexter) and came to live with me 3 days ago. She had her last calf about 7 months ago. She was milked several years ago after her first calf but hasn't been milked since then, nor has she worn a halter. I bought her because when I went to meet her she let me touch her udder and squeeze a few squirts of milk and turned around and licked me. I fell hard and had to have her. I've been raising and milking goats for 7 years and have dealt with sensitive girls who take a little while to train to the milk stand but they all come around eventually. I'm worried Raisa isn't going to be as easy.

As I said, she's been here 3 days and all she's let me do is take 1/4 cup at a time. The first time she gave me a swift kick in the thigh and I learned how much more powerful cows are than goats. She's definitely more relaxed now than she was the first day. She'll let me wash her udder forever. Seems to like it a lot actually. BUT, if I attempt to take any milk she steps aside and now lifts her leg but doesn't kick. I can rub her all over, scratch her face and love on her but she just doesn't want me to milk her. I've built her a stanchion (after being kicked) and she's stood on it a few times but doesn't really get too excited about it and quickly backs off if I try to milk her. I'm working on getting a halter on her but it's slow going. She very willingly walks into the milking stall but wants to eat out of her bowl away from the stanchion.

So.....what am I doing wrong? Why am I making her uncomfortable when I squeeze a teat? Is there a different way to milk a cow than a goat? I feel really bad that her udder is so full now. Am I expecting too much, too soon? She follows me around like a puppy and seems to like my company but I must be doing something wrong when trying to milk her.

[gone-a-milkin]

First of all, congratulations.


Okay, you haveonly had her 3 days and you are keeping trying so this is good.
There are lots of folks who get one good kick and call that an "Okay, nevermind. What was I thinking."

If noone has milked her in years, does that mean she has been raising her own calves?
Is she just now removed from the most recent calf, when she came to you?

When you say "she only lets you take x amount of milk" what do you mean?
She lifts her foot and threatens to kick you?
How does she prevent you from milking her?

Squeezing the teats does not cause undue pain to a healthy udder.
Those calves are really rough on their mamas, and they have sharp teeth too.

The trick here is to make doing the correct thing the only comfortable option for
Raisa to do.
That and it is going to take some time before you totally trust eachother.

[petaddict]

Thanks, Gone-a-milkin. Let's see if I can answer your questions. Yes, she has been raising her own calves. Yes, when she came to me she was being removed from her most recent calf. Now when she lifts her foot I don't feel like she really wants to kick me. I feel like she's just giving me a warning. I think we've bonded enough that she doesn't want to hurt me. I've spent at least 4 hours a day (way more the first day) with her each day trying to win her over and just be in her company. She prevents me from milking her by moving her back end away or walking away because I don't have her secured in any way.

I honestly don't think I'm hurting her. I've milked enough goats to know if I'm being too rough and also her teats aren't hot or red looking. I think it's more of her getting used to me. BUT will she? I really want to milk her some before drying up. She's pregnant (hopefully) and due in April or May and I want to be ready then.

[gone-a-milkin]

You should try actually restraining her to milk.
Can you put her up against a wall or close her head in a stanchion?
Dont give her any grain unless she is locked in there for milking.

I have a feeling she will come around if you keep at it.
Dont let her buffalo you by threatening a kick.
Tell her in a stern voice to knock it off.

Sort of like, just acting confident rather than pussyfooting around, if that makes sense.
Your goal is not to become her best heifer friend. You are the herd boss.


Try to get right up underneath her, lean your shoulder into her,
while you milk.
It seems counterintuitive, but being closer to a kicking hoof is better than meeting it at the end of a strike.
Also by being right up into her, you will feel when she shifts her weight anticipate her movement.

Dont get hurt, obviously.

You could get a 2nd person to help you and there are hobbles and rope restraints and stuff you could try.

Are you going to have her pregged checked before you dry her up? (highly recommended)

[petaddict]

I haven't locked her head into the stanchion yet (she's only had her head through it once) because I'm afraid she'll freak out and I'll be taking another step backwards. I do know I need to restrain her if I want to move forward.

I'll admit I'm a pushover. I've been wanting her to trust me and trying not to push too hard but I can see I need to be more assertive. I've seen how this works with my donkeys and should know better by now. Every day I just think she's going to give in. I've never had luck with hobbles on goats but I may consider it if this goes on too long. My husband would be very little help. He tries really hard but is nervous and all the animals sense this and, in turn, act nervous. He's a good helper in many other ways, just not in calming animals.

That's a good idea, keeping my body closer to her- almost under her. I'll try that tomorrow. I did have the halter over her nose tonight but not hooked on. She didn't go too nuts but wasn't real happy about it either. Tomorrow........I don't give up this easily.

I hadn't considered having her preg. checked. All my other animals (goats, pigs, donkeys) show signs of heat if they're not bred. I'll have to look up how to tell if a cow is in heat. Is it not that obvious? What would be the reason for having her ultrasounded? At what point in the pregnancy do you usually do it? She'd been living with a bull for several months and has had at least 3 or 4 calves in the past so I just assumed it took this time too.

Any other tips are appreciated. I feel like we're so close, yet so far. I have a milking machine I'd love to use on her too and when I run it she sniffs it but I can tell the sound makes her a little nervous but not crazy nervous. Most of my goats choose it over hand milking. Every day I say, "today is going to be the day".

[WJMartin]

We had to milk a cow that had never been handled or halter trained. Tried lots of things but what worked was locked in stanchion, old fashion chain kickers and lots of grain, she didn't fight the stanchion as long as she had grain, that was the only place she got grain. She was a nice Dexter but she was in a lot of pain in her udder and didn't want us touching her, I rubbed orajel on her teats and that helped a lot. I had her at a farm that used a machine and she was no problem for them so yours may also prefer machine over hand milking.

It sounds like you have a really nice calm girl, she's just missing her baby and is getting settled in, bet you'll have her milking soon.

[petaddict]

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, Gone-a-milkin and WJMartin. You won't believe this (maybe you will) but today I got a gallon of milk from her by using my machine. It took maybe an hour till we got to this point but it was so worth the wait. I got a halter on her which is way too big and slipped down to her neck. I tied her to a post in the barn and she freaked out a bit- tried to lie down- then walked forward onto the stanchion so I untied her so she could reach the food. The halter and rope were still on her. She ate her grain and I left her alone and just watched her for a while.
<a href="http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/kp...1db17.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...psa771db17.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo milking002_zpsa771db17.jpg"/></a>
She backed off the stanchion and walked around the 15 x 15' space she was locked in. I grabbed the rope and tied her up again in a corner with some hay. I was determined to milk her today. She pulled the rope some more and worked through her frustration then calmed down again so I turned the milking machine on and let her sniff it. I washed her udder for a while because she likes it then held my breath as I attached the inflations to 2 of her teats. It's a goat milker so there are only two of them. She didn't flinch for quite a while. I got a pint before she stepped aside and made it come off so I poured that into a container so as not to lose that white gold. I went back for more and she was fine. She'd had enough after giving me a gallon and pulled until she slipped the halter off. I decided I should quit while I was ahead. She never once tried to kick. I haven't been so excited about milk in a long time.
<a href="http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/kp...23170.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8de23170.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo milking003_zps8de23170.jpg"/></a>

I hope tonight goes even better.

[gone-a-milkin]

Oh, that is great news!
I like your stanchion too.
In a few days you will be an old hand at this.
Good job.

[petaddict]

Thanks. I think one of the things that helped to get her on to the stanchion is I cut a window in her barn so she wasn't just looking at the wall. She kept looking out the window and I think she didn't feel so trapped. I hope you're right, one day the struggle will just be a vague memory.

[topside1]

Who's the "Power Punch" for, you or your Dexter....Nice work, Topside

[petaddict]

The Power Punch was for my goats after kidding. I've never tried it. Maybe I should on those days I need a lift

Thanks. Today was a great day, to say the least. http://holesinmyjeans-kpannabecker.b...-day-huge.html I also artificially inseminated a pig for the first time and hope it was successful. I'm feeling kind of high tonight and it's not because of Power Punch.

[countryfied2011]

Congratulations and she is a cutie. Love your stanchion too. I am going to show to DH.

I dont blame her I would want to look out the window too. lol

[WJMartin]

Just read your blog. You crack me up. lol

I have an older gentleman who is teaching me to AI cows, my DH and family and friends all wish I would just shut up about putting my hands in a cow's whoohaa. lol

ps: Congrates on the gallon of milk.

[petaddict]

I know what you mean, WJMartin. I get really excited about doing things like that too and I'm sure my friends get tired of hearing about it. You're welcome to PM me any time you want to tell me about how you hand your hands in a cow. I'd never get tired of it And thanks for the congrats. Today I only got a 1/2 gallon before she swung her back end around and I tumbled on my back with her over top me. I didn't get hurt and I could tell she felt bad. When I stood back up she put her head and neck against legs. I told her it was ok and scratched her for a while. I tried again but she was done. One improvement today though was that she let me halter her much easier.

[WJMartin]

petaddict, it sounds like you are not locking her into the stanchion. Is this correct? I love the fact that she is letting you milk some without being locked but it can be dangerous. Please be careful.

I'm suppose to have another lesson next week if the girls come in heat. If I get eye rolls from home I may have to pm you. lol You may regret that offer.

[chickenista]

I just have to ask.... did you name her for the character in the Tom Robb smith book, Child 44'??

[petaddict]

She came with the name. I'd never heard of it before but I like it. I'll have to look that book up.

WJMartin, today was the first day I milked her locked (actually tied) in her stanchion. The other days she was tied to a post and could swing her back end around. Yes, you're right - dangerous. Today was better, though I got even less milk before she quit. When I say quit, I mean quit. While I milked she got down on her front knees. It seemed like I milked quite a while before she told me time was up so I was surprised how little milk was in the pail. I hope she's not drying up on me. I know there was still milk in there but after a number of minutes she stomps and makes it impossible for me to keep the inflations on her teats. Today she crushed my water bucket (coffee container). It felt so much safer with her in the stanchion than her tied to a post.

I won't regret the offer to listen to you ramble on about AI experiences. Today was my last dosing of my pig. I did it 3 days in a row. I'll know if it was successful in 3 weeks. I'm going to be so disappointed if she comes back into heat.

[WJMartin]

Sounds like you have quite a character on your hands. I've never heard of a cow that would go down while being milked, what a stinker!

I'm a bit concerned with her stomping, that it stops the milking, she's learning to be the alpha/boss of the barn. She could be drying up, Dexter's are great mama's and with the calf gone she has no reason to keep up the milk production, feeding her grain & or alfalfa will help keep her producing and regular milking. If you can't empty her udder with the machine maybe you can finish by hand, if she's down on her knees she can't kick so jump in there quick, even if you waste it on the ground. You have to empty that udder to keep her in milk.
You have said that she likes you to wash or massage her, can you only do that just for a short time before milking and when she stomps maybe a short break of washing and then try milking again. Keep trying, you'll find a method that works. The message you want to send is, she will be released from the stanchion WHEN YOU FINISH so lock her in.

Good luck with the pig. What breed is she and what did you breed her to?

[petaddict]

She's a duroc/hampshire cross and I bred her to a spot. I have 2 other Gloucestershire Old Spots (boar and gilt) but they're only 5-6 months old. My sow is almost 600lbs. She's about 2 1/2 years old. I got her as a baby. She's great.

Raisa and I will figure it out eventually, I hope. I really wish I could empty her udder to keep her milk up. I need to get her a halter that fits. She keeps slipping the ones I've tried. I tried 2 new ones today but they were too small. Tying her in the stanchion seems to work best. If only I could keep the halter on her. I'm drying up my goats so Raisa is my only source of milk. She treats me like a calf. You know how mom's decide the calf has had enough and walks away. That's what she's like. She gives me maybe 3 minutes and that's it. She stops eating while I'm milking. My goats eat as fast as they can while I milk to see how much they can put away in the time they're up there. Strangely enough, I'm enjoying this challenge with her.

[petaddict]

Thanks for help and advice. It has taken just a little over a week and I can proudly say, Raisa and I have figured it all out and she has turned into the sweetest milk cow. The last 2 mornings she was about as well behaved as I could ask for. I'm not getting a whole lot of milk (1/2 a gallon every morning) but it's all I need right now and my goal was to keep her in milk till we both felt comfortable with the process. Hopefully she'lll keep this up for another few months and come April or May when she calves we can pick up where we left off. I'm feeling pretty proud of both of us. I love this girl.