Strange calf death~ thoughts?

[Cheryl aka JM]

I suppose I should start by saying the calf if being necropsied and I am waiting on the results. But thats gonna take a while and I'm concerned for the last two calves and now for my cow. So~ maybe I just want to chat about this~ maybe I'm looking for some ideas what went wrong.

Two months ago I purchased 4 bottle bulls to raise on my nurse cows. One calf didn't even get all the way home and he was bloated. Took him to the vet~ but he died despite the vet trying to save him. Said there was air under his skin between his muscles and skin~ like trauma but of course the seller said no trauma and never a sick calf on his place. I should have gotten a necropsy done then but I was busy~ it was late on a friday night and I didn't have a place to keep the calf cold until monday morning. I burried the calf and the vet and I agreed his death was an unfortunate mystery.

The other three calves seemed fine~ we did have a bout of scours but the calves got over it and bonded onto one of my nurse cows. I meant for each cow to have only two calves~ but one cow wanted all three calves and the other wanted none...so I let that happen and allowed the other cow to dry up. The cow that wound up with the three calves had been feeding 4 calves and was only about 4 months into lactation so I let her take these 3 calves. Two weeks ago I wormed the calves with Valbazen, gave them CDT vaccine in prep for banding soon~ at that time I noted all three calves were a bit smaller than I'd like but not looking any more malnourished than holstien calves usually look. I did observe all three nursing on the cow as well as grazing and hitting the mineral bucket.

Two day ago I find one of the other three calves down. He looks fine~ poops fine~ eats fine~ WONT stand up. I backed the tractor up on him~ tied ropes around him and used the hay spear to hoist him up and haul him across the pasture~ then my sister and I stuffed him in my van. He would not stand on his own at all. Took him to the vet~ temp was 102.8F. Not very high considering the stress of riding across the pasture tied to my hay spear! Of course~ at the vet the calf stood up and walked just fine! Vet gave him Banamine, Draxxin and Nuflor for walking pneumonia. Said to bottle feed him for a bit to be sure he was getting his share of milk.

The calf would not drink from a bottle that night but he was grazing. I was planning to ask for some selenium because of another thread I saw here but we didn't get that far. Yesterday the calf was down and clearly dying. He went ahead and died before anything else could be done. I took him to the state lab to be necropsied. (They thought I would balk at the $35 to necropsy him....Man if I'd known it was only $35 I would have had the last one necropsied too! It's worth $35 just to not have to dig a hole to bury him in!!)

So I called last night for preliminary results and this is what we know so far. She didn't say anything about selenium and I forgot to ask~ what she did tell me was
1. She is doing some cultures but if it was bacterial the antibiotics we gave him Monday night will probably nullify any of those tests.
2. He was a reasonable weight for his age and had a rumen full of what she considered good quality forage but he had no milk in him (not surprising we know he was down and had not nursed for at least a day or two before he actually died).
3. He had notably very little fat around his heart and kidneys and he should have had some at his age
4. He had several small unexplained ulcers in abomasum which may have contributed to his not absorbing nutrients
5. He also had air under the skin between his muscles and skin but only on one leg~ she was unable to conclude why and saw no evidence of trauma on that leg or anywhere else on the calf

She sent off an ear notch for BVD and speculated that if the mother cow had contracted BVD while gestating that perhaps that would explain the calf symptoms~ but she stressed this was conjecture at this point and she did not know if that calf had BVD or not.

I'm not sure what to think. I'm thinking about maybe taking the last two calves to the vet to get ear notches taken and sent to be tested for BVD as well~ but I'm just not sure what to do at this point. More research on BVD for sure.....

[Awnry Abe]

No thoughts. I appreciate the post. I hope you can share the necropsy result.

[haypoint]

Do we know the cow has milk? I'd get selenium for the others, just 'cause.

[G. Seddon]

Sorry you lost a calf, but I'm glad to hear you're having a necropsy done. There's always something to learn.

[masseyandy]

I live in Florence, AL. I had a heifer calf die on me last week and the same type symptoms. I found her laid out on her side got her up and gave her LA 200, B12, and bottle of milk. She was fine for 2 days, and then she was laid out on her side again I couldn't get her up or to eat or take a bottle and she died the next day. I thought it might be Cherry tree poisoning. I would love to hear your results.

[Cheryl aka JM]

sorry to hear about your calf~and yes I plan to share the results of the necropsy when I get them. As far as getting selenium for the others~ I've asked my vet for Bo-Se for the goats before and he is very resistant as he tells me we are not in a selenium deficient area. We will see what the necropsy has to say and if it doesn't say anything about selenium maybe I'll draw blood on one of the other calves and send it to be tested just for the peace of mind.

I've done more reading on BVD and I'm very worried that could be it.

[7thswan]

Tho I do not post here, I do have cattle. It does sound like Bo-Se could help, if,. I have had a couple of calfs that had under developed stomach, they could not absorb nutrients properly. They live if kept on IV, but there was no reason to continue as the stomach issue would make keeping one alive too expensive to find out the final outcome.

[Madsaw]

Your vet did not pick up on the black leg infection? Penicillin is the simple treatment for it. Its a bacterial infection that cause the gas under the skin. Also will cause bloat if its in the guts. In thus case a high dose if penny down the throat plus a high dose injection. Its a colstridial bacteria .
Bob

[Jennifer L.]

I agree with Madsaw, gas under the skin (crackling noise when you run your hand over their back) is bacterial infection, and bad stuff to deal with. At my place when I had it in the past with cows it was mastitis caused by Staph aureus. Gangrenous mastitis and by the time there was gas under the skin you were probably going to lose the cow. Really bad stuff.

Don't get where your vet is acting like "air" under the skin is caused by an injury. I'd be seriously considering another vet.

[Miss Kay]

Black leg is what I thought too. It is one of the symptoms.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Well.... no one has suggested blackleg before so I looked it up. If I'm understanding correctly possibly the reason the vet did not suggest blackleg with the first calf to die is

"Most losses due to blackleg occur when the cattle are between the ages of six months and two years of age, although it can occur when they are as young as two months"

And the first calf was 3 days old. The 3 day old calf is the calf the vet was perplexed what happened and he did suggest a necropsy but I didn't follow through. The second calf was 2 months old and is being necropsied~ not by my vet but by the vets at the State Lab at Wallace in Hanceville, AL. THAT vet told me one leg of that calf had air between the skin and the body but that she did not know why. She also said she was running cultures that may not be helpful as my vet had given the two month old calf a lot of antibiotics the night before he died~ but had she seen

"During a necropsy, a diagnosis is usually made very quickly, as the affected muscle is usually mottled with black patches, which are dead tissue, killed by the toxins that the bacteria release when they infect live tissue."

I imaging she would have mentioned it or at least it will be noted in the necropsy report. I know she also said some of the samples were being sent to Auburn for another Dr to look at.

I sure hope it's not Blackleg~ but I'm sure hoping it's not BVD either. I don't know what I'm hoping it is....guess I'm wishing it hadn't happened.

[Madsaw]

Bottle calves will ingest the bacteria with their milk and bloat and die. Oral dose if penicillin is the treatment. Blackleg is every where. Common reasons for flare ups is excavation in the farm. Most of our cow cases of it was directly linked to najior dirt movement in pastures. The neighbor added on to his barn. The guy running Track loader dug up a old bury pit on the farm. With in a day he had 4 dead next morning 3 more dead and sold 2 more a few months later. He treated 25 with penicillin after the first 7 died. Would have lost more if it wasn't for the treatment. Its wicked stuff with many different strength strains. We always keep penny on hand just in case

[Cheryl aka JM]

Well your really confirming my regret about not having had the first calf necropsied.

[Madsaw]

You may never see a case if it again. If ever in doubt a standard dose of penny will ward it off. Years ago it was linked to being found in swampy areas. Lots of little things can affect calves. Its always a learning experience

[Cheryl aka JM]

It took over 2 months but I FINALLY got the report back on the necropsy. I had gotten a prelim report before Christmas that said probably BVD~ and had become convinced it WAS BVD based on that~ but the tests have finally come back and it was NOT BVD. Seems~ it was incredibly bad luck. Not all of the tests were conclusive as the calf had been given antibiotics the day before his death~ and the finding that he had no milk curds in his stomach was not surprising as he was down for at least a day and half unable to stand and nurse and unwilling to drink from a bottle before he died~ but considering I have now lost 3 of the 4 calves I bought from this seller on Sept 13 (one of them within hours of purchasing him) my best guess is the calves did not get enough colostrum and I will not be purchasing from this seller ever again. This entire experience has some what soured the joy of raising the calves for me and it's certainly cost a lot more $$$$ than I care to think about. For those who would like to read the reports I am cutting an pasting them below~ I'm going to XXXX through the contact information because it's really not anyone's business~ but for information's sake here are the reports that finally came in today:



STATE OF ALABAMA
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND INDUSTRIES
Hinton Mitchem Poultry Diagnostic Laboratory

FINAL REPORT: XXXXXXXX
Cheryl Marchek Submitter/Owner: Cheryl Marchek
XX XXXXXX XXXXXX XX Date Received: 11/12/13
XXXXXXXXX, XX XXXXX Date preliminary report: 12/6/13
Date final report: 1/23/14
History summary: A 2 months old, male Holstien calf, weighing 96 pounds was presented for necropsy. The calf could not stand on 11/11/13, but otherwise appeared healthy. The calf was treated with antibiotics and banamine. On the morning of 11/12/13, the calf could still not stand and died later that day.
Procedures: Necropsy, Histopathology, Serology, PCR and Bacteriology.
Necropsy Results: The calf had a body score of 3. It had dried feces around the hocks and the base of the tail. The lungs were mildly congested. The ventral sections had small defined sections of dark purple. There was no cardiac fat present. There was “dry:” impacted forage at the proximal end of the jejunum. The abomasum had multiple small ulcers. The renal pelvis was enlarged with gelatinous material around the medulla. The spleen appeared thin and depleted. Curds were not present in the abomasum. There was a significant amount of fine green roughage in the abomasum and the rumen.
Bacteriology Results: No growth
Serology Results: see attached Auburn report.
PCR/Histopathology Results: See attached auburn report.
Preliminary diagnosis: Abomasal ulcers.
Comments: Please feel free to call and discuss these results if needed.
Sincerely,
XXXXX XXXXXX, DVM
Laboratory Director, Hanceville


THOMPSON BISHOP SPARKS DIAGNOSTIC LAB
JAN-23-14 01:25 PM
AUBURN, ALABAMA 36831-2209
ADMINISTRATION RESULTS
PATHOLOGY RESULTS
TISSUE
SPECIES BREED AGE SEX ANIMAL ID
DATE CUT-IN ATB SLIDE COUNT TISSUE COUNT
Bovine Holstein 2m Male Holstein Calf
11/25/2013 NO 11 31
Accession Number:
Received:
XX XXXXX XXXXXX
11/15/2013 Finalized: 01/23/2014
To:
Owner: CHERYL MARCHEK
HINTON MITCHEM POULTRY DIAGNOSTIC LAB
STATE OF ALABAMA DEPT OF AGRICULTURE
Report Date
ANIMAL INFORMATION
HISTOLOGY STATISTICS
Final Report

PATHOLOGY RESULTS
HISTOPATHDX
HISTOPATHOLOGY
COMMENTS
Abomasal erosions, multifocal, chronic, moderate.
Enterocolitis, eosinophilic and lymphoplasmacytic, multifocal, chronic,
mild, with crypt abscesses.
Epicardial fat atrophy, marked.
Brain: There are no significant findings.
Heart: There is marked atrophy of epicardial adipose tissue.
Thymus: Lobules appear to be mildly reduced in size, but there is no
necrosis of lymphocytes.
Trachea: There are no significant findings.
Lung: The interlobular septa are multifocally moderately expanded by
clear space and dilated lymphatics. Small numbers of sloughed epithelial
cells are present within the lumina of bronchi. The alveolar interstitium is
multifocally congested. Subpleural lymphatics are dilated and empty.
Liver: There are no significant findings.
Spleen: The capsule is moderately undulating. The white pulp is
adequately populated by lymphocytes.
Kidney: There are no significant findings.
Adrenal gland: There are no significant findings.
Lymph nodes: There are no significant findings.
Esophagus: The mucosa is mildly hyperplastic with parakeratotic
hyperkeratosis.
Rumen, reticulum, and omasum: There are no significant findings.
Abomasum: There are multiple erosions in the abomasal mucosa. At
these erosions, the lamina propria contains moderately increased
numbers of lymphocytes, plasma cells, and neutrophils. The lamina
propria at these foci also multifocally contains mildly increased amounts
of fibrous connective tissue. Small amounts of eosinophilic material are
infrequently present within the lumina of glands. Small amounts of plant
material and sloughed cellular debris are present on the luminal surface.
Small intestine: The lamina propria multifocally contains mildly increased
numbers of eosinophils, lymphocytes, and plasma cells. The lumina of
crypts infrequently contain small numbers of eosinophils. Blood vessels in
the lamina propria are multifocally congested. Occasional crypts are
markedly distended with cellular debris (crypt abscesses).
Large intestine: Multifocally there is a loss of crypts with replacement by
fibrous connective tissue containing small numbers of lymphocytes,
macrophages, and eosinophils.
The abomasal erosions could have contributed to the reduced nutritional
condition and epicardial fat atrophy in this calf. The cause of abomasal
erosions and ulcers are usually unclear, but they are common in young
cattle. They can occur as linear areas of brown to black hemorrhage or
erosion along the margins of abomasal folds, or can occur as punctate
hemorrhages or erosions scattered over the mucosa (as was present in
this case). Abomasal ulcers are frequently subclinical, but can result in
morbidity and mortality, typically through blood loss or perforation.
Abomasal ulcers tend to occur under stressful circumstances and can occur in calves with abomasal stasis secondary to an obstruction.
Abomasal ulcers can occur secondary to ingestion of some toxins, such
as arsenic, but additional lesions suggestive of a toxicosis were not
identified, and arsenic toxicosis typically causes a hemorrhagic enteritis
with a bright red discoloration of the abomasal mucosa (not present in this
case). The enterocolitis was non-specific, but could have been caused by
endoparasitism. PCR and antigen capture ELISA tests for BVD were
negative. The positive BVD serum neutralization test could have been
caused by maternal antibody, vaccination, or previous infection.
Consistent with your bacterial culture results, there was no evidence of a
bacterial pneumonia or hepatitis.


Holstein Calf
LUNG,LYMPH NODE,SPLEEN,THYMUS
Tissue on hold until 1/31/14
VIROLOGY HOLD
ANIMAL ID BVD PCR TEST COUNT SPECIMEN DESC SPECIES
ANIMAL ID SPECIMEN DESC BVD CELISA
Holstein Calf NEGATIVE 1 Lung,Lymph
Node,Spleen,Thymu
s
Bovine
Holstein Calf Ear NEGATIVE
STATE OF ALABAMA DEPT OF AGRICULTURE
Accession Number: 14H00288
Report Date
BOVINE VIRAL DIARRHEA RT-PCR
BVDV Ear Notch Antigen Capture ELISA
Bovine Viral Diarrhea Virus Type 1 SN
Final Report
SEROLOGY RESULTS
TOXICOLOGY RESULTS
HOLD DATE TOXICOLOGY SPECIMEN WILL BE HELD UNTIL 01/31/2014 .
Hold Date
BVD TYPE 1 SN ANIMAL ID SPECIES SPECIMEN DESC REPORTED BY
1:32 Holstein Calf Bovine Serum Emily Handley, BS,
MS
STATE OF ALABAMA DEPT OF AGRICULTURE
Accession Number: 14H00288
Report Date
Final Report
Page 4 of 4

[Awnry Abe]

Thank you for the update.

[Oakshire_Farm]

That was a interesting read! I have been raising holstein bull calves for years! About 2 years ago I had about 15 of them on the go, they were all fat and feisty and looking great. But then one day, one started loosing weight...... by the afternoon had diarrhea, the next morning DEAD..... That next day a few more started dropping weight, then getting diarrhea..... One went down and was not looking good, my husband shot it. The blood POURED out of this calf! The weird thing was the color of the blood, bright RED! and not coagulating?? We were doing lots of research trying to figure out what was going on. They were ALL getting sick! We chatted with the vet, and he suggested it sounded like a type of poisoning.... We were going over everything, the hay, was fine, all the other animals were eating it, same grain that the other animals was eating? The milk and milk replacer checked out fine???? It turned out that the nipples that we were using to feed them had a "flapper valve" that went into a tub of the milk, they had free choice of milk. The "Flapper Valve" was made of a copper...... It had oxidized and was poisoning the calves! The vet took a few samples and confirmed. We switched to a different feeding method, we ended up loosing all but 2, which we kept rather than selling, they did not grow well and didn't have any meat on them when we butchered them But I would rather have done that over selling them.

Lesson learned, I now have 2 milk bars that I feed calves with. Life is easier! I have 2 pen and 2 milk bars (each with 5 teats) I only have 5 calves on the go right now and since that disaster we have been doing great with calves (we were up to that event as well)