Selecting a family cow for small homestead.

[krebolj]

I need help in selecting a cow. I currently have goats, but they require too much grain input and there is no way that I could ever "grass feed" them while in milk. I only want to keep one cow (aside from when her calf has to be on her- I have 4 sheep who could keep her company in the meantime), and have an acre that could be dedicated to just her as well as a dry lot. I am okay with supplementing hay because it is still much cheaper than grain and keeps all animals occupied longer, in my experience. I don't want something that will decimate what I have, but I also can't pull out a mortgage for a specialty "mini". My main goal is not feeding grain, having milk and cream for drinking/ butter/ ice cream/ cheese and a bit extra for the pigs. I would love to have something from the ALBC list, and have been in contact with a couple Milking Devon breeders....but I am still lost as to making a definite selection.


HELP!

[genebo]

You have written a description of Dexter cattle. Feed efficiency on grass with a moderate milk production. The beef is excellent, in case you want to feed out the calf.

Dexters have been on the ALBC list for a long time and are currently listed as 'recovering'. That has made them more readily available.

Try searching through the North Carolina Agricultural Review for an affordable cow.

http://www.ncagr.gov/paffairs/AgReview/class.htm

Be sure to visit the cow first, before buying. Make sure you like her and aren't buying someone else's problem.

[SpaceCadet12364]

I would agree Dexter. Just look for one more on the dairy side.

[G. Seddon]

In my opinion, you might be expecting too much of one "heritage" cow, be it Devon or Dexter...to produce milk for you, feed her calf, and the pigs on 1 acre of grass with only hay to supplement. Cows and sheep require different minerals and a cow that has been raised with other cattle will not be happy with sheep. You will also need to arrange for breeding when the time comes, and this isn't always easy (Dexter-wise).

I do agree, though, that you need to make sure you and the cow are a good match; it's very important.

Best of luck!

[krebolj]

Maybe I should add it is only 3 AGH pigs? I'm not expecting to feed them solely milk, but it would be nice to have extra to feed them at least every other day. At any rate, the feeding the pigs is a by-product. The main goal is milk for the family to drink and kitchen craft with....milking one animal, not having to purchase a cream separator, and having a grass based diet without trucking in alfalfa. To get two gallons of milk from my goat requires 4-6lbs of grain a day and she still turns into a rail. From anecdotal evidence from friends and the family I could get the same amount of milk from a cow providing just hay alone...grain would increase it greatly to an excess for one family.

[krebolj]

This is why I am considering the milking devon, in addition to the facts that there are more farms with them around me and they are less expensive.

DEXTER

Registered cows measure 36 to 42 inches in shoulder height at three years of age and weigh approximately 750 pounds. Dexters produce meat and milk. For their size Dexters are prolific milkers. They can easily rear two calves at a time or produce 1.5 to 2.5 gallons per day with 4% butterfat. The breed matures early, and its beef, which has excellent flavor with good marbling, can be produced economically. Dexter steers can be finished on grass at 18 to 24 months of age, without supplementary feeding, with an average live weight of approximately 770 pounds. Dexters are noted for their longevity and should breed regularly for 14 years or more. Calving problems are rare, and calves are quick on their feet, full of character and have a lively, inquisitive temperament.

MILKING DEVON

The Milking Devon is a bright red, medium-sized, triple-purpose breed (milk, meat and oxen) adapted to survive on a diet high in forage that lacks quality, and in severe climates. This healthy, long-lived breed thrives on good care and management. Average milk production is about 2 gallons each day when the calf nurses during the days but not at nights, or 4 to 5 gallons each day when a calf is not nursing. The butterfat content is 4 to 5% even when the cow gets little or no grain.


The Devon breed page lists a cow's weight as 1000-1100lbs; the Dexter is listed at 750. For a 300lb difference in feeding I get double the milk. I will definitely be able to accomplish what I want with that.

[Jersey/guernsey]

Personally I like milking shorthorns.
But when picking out a grass fed cow of any breed make sure that she is well suited to that type of work.
Some cows, even heritage breeds will put their all in the bucket rather then drop production (you have a skinny cow or feed grain) others simply make less milk and keep condition beautifully on grass (hay) alone.

[krebolj]

Well, I spoke to two more farms today. The Dexter farm told me that he feeds grass hay alone and has had people tell him they get between 3-6 gallons on the same diet. I talked to another milking Devon breeder who told me she gets a gallon each milking (so 2gallons a day) on grass/ hay in a area not much farther from me. She also told me no way do I want a Devon on the land I have available.

So that blew everything out of the water... it seems I will be getting a Dexter now.

I have seen Dexters advertised $600 and up on craigslist in my area. The two farms in the state with websites are asking between $1000-1800 for a heifer calf. The craigslist ones look healthy, would you go for those?

Also, what does AI typically run? One of the advertised Dexter farms offers bull service for $250 (months worth of feed/ care and breeding) as long as you health test.

[G. Seddon]

A Dexter giving 3-6 gallons a day on grass and hay only is highly debatable.

If you look here, you will find a list of all owners/breeders in SC; the SC listings start on page 26.

http://dextercattle.org/pdf/ml/Membe..._July_2013.pdf

Buying from a reputable breeder who can help you select the proper cow will make your life easier; be sure to make sure all testing required for a family milk cow has been done (TB, brucellosis, etc. -- check with your large animal vet). A good breeder will provide you with assistance AFTER the sale as well, should you need it. I myself would steer clear of buying any livestock off Craigslist.

You might try getting in touch with Charles Townson, the ADCA region 8 director; he's in Cowpens, SC.

Read the Buyer's Checklist: http://www.dextercattle.org/buyer%20checklist.htm

Keep in mind that Dexters are a registered breed and you help the breed by testing and registering your calves.

[genebo]

I raise and sell Dexters and I've never heard of one that could give 6 gallons a day. I've heard of a champion Dexter cow years ago in England that gave 4 gallons a day. Buying a Dexter with expectations of that kind of production can lead to disappointment.

Most of mine are capable of giving 2 to 3 gallons a day, but only under the best of conditions. Plenty of grass and a good relationship between the milker and the cow.

When I suggested that you go visit a cow before buying, it was for more than one reason. You want to see that the cow is as represented and you also want to see how you and the cow get along. That is important to the cow as well as you, for if she doesn't like you, your voice, the way you move, the scents you wear, she can hold up her milk and you'll be very disappointed. Finding a cow you can bond with will get you all she's capable of giving. You're happy, she's happy, the milk pail is full.

Craigslist Dexters are famous for being sold as "capable of being registered". In fact, you should never buy a Dexter unless it is already registered and the owner transfers the registration to you.

Unless the registration is meaningless to you and you don't anticipate selling your offspring. Then the lower prices for unregistered stock may make sense. Unregistered doesn't mean that she won't perform as well, but you have no way of knowing how well she will perform. The pedigree is what tells you who her sire, dam and other ancestors are, so you can tell what she is likely to produce. It's almost required in order to sell your offspring.

Here's one cost estimate for AI:

semen straws, 2 at $25 = $50
shipping the straws, $125
Vet visit to prep the cow, $80 + $12 for hormone shot.
AI Tech visit, $50 + $25 per cow.

Total cost is about $342 for one cow. Deduct the vet visit if you can determine her exact standing heat time naturally, bringing the cost down to $250.

Visiting a bull around here costs $150 + health tests. The health tests cost a vet visit + lab work, about $125. Total for visiting a bull is about $275.

I hope you find this useful. The questions you asked are the same ones so many people write to ask when they are buying semen.

Genebo
Paradise Farm
http://paradisedexters.com

[krebolj]

Genebo- when you say see the cow before buying because of relationship...including calves? I was under the impression (maybe stupidly) that raising the calf would form the needed bond.

The registration papers themselves are not important to me, simply because I plan on eating offspring. That doesn't mean I am willing to take on health issues though, so I do plan to ask for Johne's, PHA status, and the other necessary tests.

I may have the opportunity to buy a cow in milk, depending on budget. The cow's sire was a PHA bull and they didn't know it...found out and got rid of him and his offspring. One of the offspring, described as a really nice cow BUT, she is a PHA CARRIER. For homestead purposes, milk and yearly butcher calf, would this cow be okay? Do carriers also have the issues with dead calves and abortions? What would be a suitable price for this cow?

[krebolj]

Also, Genebo, you say yours are capable of 2-3 gallons...is that with or without calf?

[Otter]

Originally Posted by krebolj

Genebo- when you say see the cow before buying because of relationship...including calves? I was under the impression (maybe stupidly) that raising the calf would form the needed bond.

Well, of course she'll bond with her calf. That still doesn't mean that she'll let down her milk for you. There are many posts of people frustrated to the points of tears and trailers because their cow will only let milk down for the calf and not them. But with another milker, most of those cows milk just fine.
So make sure you and the cow like each other. You'll be spending a good bit of time together, after all.

Originally Posted by krebolj

The registration papers themselves are not important to me, simply because I plan on eating offspring.

EVERYONE says that ... right up until their cow drops a heifer calf. Are you really, truly going to eat a heifer? Or are you going to look down on that little calf and know you can sell her for $600 - kick yourself because that would have been a grand if you'd just spent a little extra on papers - buy a beef calf to graft onto the cow for less then $300 and have money in your pocket? Really? I wouldn't. That $$ difference is a winter's worth of hay for your cow and then some.

[G. Seddon]

krebolj, pay attention to Genebo's and Otter's posts. They are absolutely right on!

The "relationship" Genebo refers to is that between the cow and the person milking; if you don't like each other, it's not going to be good. And, yes, some people will beef a heifer, but many do not, especially those that have raised it, thinking that the heifer is worth more as a sale animal -- but NOT if the heifer carries PHA. Nobody with a clue about Dexters will buy a PHA positive heifer.

I'm a Dexter breeder. I don't milk our cows. But I have been trying to tell you that having Dexters includes a responsibility to the breed -- to register when appropriate, to test, to educate buyers, and, most of all, to CARE for these cattle and do your best by them.

If you are brand new to this homesteading cow thing, I suggest you get a couple of good books, sign up at the Keeping a Family Cow board (http://familycow.proboards.com/board/19), and learn as much as you can before you make any decisions.

[krebolj]

[QUOTE=Otter;6708530]Well, of course she'll bond with her calf. That still doesn't mean that she'll let down her milk for you. There are many posts of people frustrated to the points of tears and trailers because their cow will only let milk down for the calf and not them. But with another milker, most of those cows milk just fine.
So make sure you and the cow like each other. You'll be spending a good bit of time together, after all.

Perhaps I am not saying this right. Of course the cow will bond with her calf; I'm asking if I buy a heifer calf, would she not bond with me through me raising her so that I could milk her as an adult???

And no, I would have no reservations selling a heifer calf for $600 unregistered as opposed to the $1000 with papers because the difference between purchasing price for me is $1200. Registered dexter heifers in my area are being sold for $1400-1800. Also, I hate the idea of charging people $400 more because of a set of papers, and I hate dealing with registries.

[krebolj]

I'm a Dexter breeder. I don't milk our cows. But I have been trying to tell you that having Dexters includes a responsibility to the breed -- to register when appropriate, to test, to educate buyers, and, most of all, to CARE for these cattle and do your best by them.

If you are brand new to this homesteading cow thing, I suggest you get a couple of good books, sign up at the Keeping a Family Cow board (http://familycow.proboards.com/board/19), and learn as much as you can before you make any decisions.

I do not feel like I have a responsibility to own registered animals if said animal is to feed my family. How arrogant is it to imply that the only people who should own Dexters are the people who want to spend money on registration?

I am not new to homesteading. I am however new to cows, which is why I came here looking for advice! I have several farms who have offered guidance throughout the journey of keeping my cow, but I always like to get an unbiased opinion because some people like to sway things in their favor. And to imply that I won't be CARING for the cow because I don't care if she is registered or not? Or because I want a cow that I can grassfeed?? Seriously....I thought the goat world was snobby.

[Miss Kay]

They are just trying to help you. No need to be offended. As for buying a calf, that is what we did and it worked great. We raised her on our feed and pasture and we trained her to be what we wanted. It worked out great. I did buy a registered heifer (we have Guernseys) and yes she was expensive but her first calf was a perfect little heifer that we kept but could have sold to recoup our investment. Unless you just have money to burn, you have to consider the finances of cows too. Registered animals bring you more money, that's all they are saying.

[lakeportfarms]

Krebolj,

Genebo and G. Seddon are trying to explain that registration of Dexters adds value to what you raise. It's possible that the Dexter that you might own has nice genetics that should be preserved for future owners. If more people had your opinion, then the breed would suffer as a result.

That you want to feed your family is fine, but if you have a Dexter heifer out of registered stock there are other options like trading your younger heifer for an older steer. This is how we built much of our breeding herd. But as a breeder of registered Dexters I wouldn't be interested in your non-registered heifer. Craigslist is filled with "Dexters" that don't have registrations, but are they really Dexters? Both Genebo, G. Seddon, and ourselves are successful breeders of Dexters, and rather than discounting our suggestions you might want to think about the reasons that we are successful and use them as a guide for how you approach your foray into cattle.

[krebolj]

I appreciate your opinions as just that- breeders. I do not want to be a breeder, I do not want a breeding herd; I want to be a person with a cow that fits on my property and provides milk, I want to be a person who butchers the calves and eats them. I don't want to better the breed; I want to eat and feed my family healthy food. If the breed suffers from my one cow not providing a registered calf every year, compared to the many breeders with numerous head of cattle providing nice registered calves yearly then something is very wrong.

[gone-a-milkin]

I think that since you mention the ALBC in your first post, and "heritage breeds"
it may have been unclear that you are simply looking for a homestead cow.


No harm done.