What share percentage?

[CJBegins]

We are having our hay baled on shares this year and I wanted to get some opinions on what share percentage is acceptable to expect.

I advertised for it to be done on 50/50 and got a few responses. One guy showed up to start cutting and his mower broke. The gears in the gear box are broke.

So now we just got a call from a guy that would do it on 60/40 shares. I have had him bale in the past and he did a fine job at a reasonable price but last year he wanted $30 a bale to bale my grass. I told him that I thought that was ridiculous and sent him on his way. We had it done at $18 per bale by another guy. The last guy isn't calling back so I guess he is probably swamped with fields to cut and bale.

What is reasonable? I can't afford to pay for it out right or this wouldn't be a problem. What kinds of arrangements are you guys making?

[ycanchu2]

If I was in the business I would want 2 to 1 unless you were right next door then maybe 1 to 1 or 50/50. Depends on how good the hay is too. If the hay would make 5 or 6 5x6 rolls to the acre then 50/50 would be good ,but if it made 2 or 3 rolls/acre.......

[FarmerDavid]

Traditionally it's been 50/50 around here. There are still one or two doing this with customers they have been baleing for for years but most are 60/40. Seems high to me if its good fertilized fields, your paying them alit to haul off your fertilizer. @ 50/50 @ 4 bales to the acre $40 bales your paying them $80 an acre. That seems rediculously high and it gets even more as the share or price of hay goes up.

[K-9]

Lets play the devils advocate here, I am coming to your farm to bale your hay. When I pull up, I have a tractor, a mower of some type, a rake of some type and a baler at a minimum. I have several thousand dollars invested in this equipment, I am burning 3.70 a gallon fuel at the rate of 4 to 5 gallons an hour. Now since I am there to bale your hay that tells me you are missing the equipment to do this yourself so that means you can't get the hay in without my assistance thus making my services valuable to you. In addition to the equipment, I will also invest part of two days into getting your hay in.

If we use the example that the previous poster used of 4 bales to the acre at 40 dollars a bale and you have 10 acres then you will give me 24 bales of hay for my work which is valued at 960 dollars. This is opposed to the 720 dollars you paid last year but you don't have the 720 dollars so you are taking a bit of a hit for no cash outlay but you are also taking no risk as you don't have to pay for fuel, wear and tear on equipment, broken/damaged equipment etc plus around here right now hay is 30 dollars a roll so the actual value of the product would be 720 so it is an even break with what you paid last year. The big question you need to answer is will the rolls you receive meet your feed needs for the year, if they do then it sounds like you have came out okay, if not then negotiate a split plus money agreement to where your needs are met. I know you may have more or less than 10 acres but I just used that to make the math simple, the ratio is the same no matter the acreage. Good luck with your hay.

[CJBegins]

K-9 that is my concern and exactly what I will be doing.

[Molly Mckee]

Here the normal split is 75/25. That is for a clean, maintained field of alfalfa or planted grass, in good condition and of reasonable size. If your field is overgrown pasture, "native grass" (weeds), not fertilized, full of weeds, rocks or trash it is going to be hard to find someone to do it. The cost of fuel, parts, twine and everything else has gone up very dramatically and in a descent hay year poor hay is hard to sell so has little value to the guy who bales. If you find someone reliable to make your hay on a 50-50 basis, I would check his references if he is not someone you know. He can't afford to do a good job, he will lose money doing you a favor.

[dkhern]

i give it away to keep meadows clean and dont grow up

[FarmerDavid]

Originally Posted by K-9

Lets play the devils advocate here, I am coming to your farm to bale your hay. When I pull up, I have a tractor, a mower of some type, a rake of some type and a baler at a minimum. I have several thousand dollars invested in this equipment, I am burning 3.70 a gallon fuel at the rate of 4 to 5 gallons an hour. Now since I am there to bale your hay that tells me you are missing the equipment to do this yourself so that means you can't get the hay in without my assistance thus making my services valuable to you. In addition to the equipment, I will also invest part of two days into getting your hay in.

I know far more about the custom side of row crop farming then hay. That said I can make 2 tillage passes, spread fert, plant, combine, and haul to town for 80$ and be making good money. If its good corn it would push that over 80$ with the extra hauling. Our combine is probably more thousands of $ then the majority of you hay equipment combined. So I'm quite familiar with what goes into custom farming.

Mowing is slow as molasses but raking and baleing aren't extremely time consuming. How much do you think you have in a bale?

[FarmerDavid]

Just figured on what I did last year in a 60/40 I'd have paid $17000 for my 160 bales. That doesn't include what I had in it in fert, just having it baled.

[K-9]

FarmerDavid, my post was in no way meant to imply that you didn't know what equipment and such cost but many don't, the only reason I referenced your post was that you had quoted a price for hay and since you were in the same general area as the OP was, I assumed you knew what hay was bringing in your area and I don't know. So no offense meant, I was actually tapping into your knowledge.

With that said, it will cost average about 15 dollars to roll a bale of hay if I consider fixed costs and time invested. But, if I am rolling hay for someone else, I am doing it to make money or as a favor because I am not in the hay selling business and if I am doing it on shares then I factor in the costs and trouble associated with marketing the hay to convert it into money. Plus around here, it is often weed hay that is of low value to start with.

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by FarmerDavid

I know far more about the custom side of row crop farming then hay. That said I can make 2 tillage passes, spread fert, plant, combine, and haul to town for 80$ and be making good money. If its good corn it would push that over 80$ with the extra hauling. Our combine is probably more thousands of $ then the majority of you hay equipment combined. So I'm quite familiar with what goes into custom farming.

Mowing is slow as molasses but raking and baleing aren't extremely time consuming. How much do you think you have in a bale?

Getting $80 for all that, heck I'll have you come do my farm for that price.

[FarmerDavid]

I can't travel to Indiana for that but breaking it down $15 for disking, $15 for field cultivating, $15 for planting, 5$ to speed fert, $25 to combine, $5 to haul it. If it was deep tillage it'd be more or if the elevator was farther it'd be more. I use farm works accounting software so I've got a pretty firm grasp of what our costs are, and im making a pretty decent wage and spreading out my fixed costs at those rates. If its a bunch of small fields or far away or something that requires more time then normal well charge alittle more. I'd love to be able to charge for using the grain cart but everyone we cut for says just don't use it but that slows us down to much.

I know fuel and equipment are high but fertilizer and land have gone up just as fast. I could live with 50/50 but over that seems like I'm giving it away. I know several area farmers that are happy so long as they have enough for their cattle. I now,rake, and ted mine and have a neighbor with a pretty new deere bailer bale it for $10 a bale. I bought a baler but wasn't happy with it and was able to sell it at a profit so this has worked out good for me. I think alot of cattle men don't really like or have much knowledge of machenery so they are happy not to have to do it.

I was guessing somewhere around $15 was what you'd have in a bale. I guess I'd just rather pay you $20 a bale and try to sell what I don't need then do it on shares. Seems like im "selling" my share at the Harvest low. I've only been at the livestock side of farming for a few years but that works for me.

As for around here I know two guys that will do it 50/50 but they are pretty much full with the same traditional customers. 2 others that do 60/40 but they are pretty much the same as far as being busy. 1 other guy that will come do it almost as quick as you can call him and but it'll be 75/25.

[K-9]

FarmerDavid, we would both be happy then, because I would rather have the 20 dollars a bale than have to fool with moving, storing, and selling the hay. Also sounds like you have a good arrangement with your neighbor, 10 dollars a roll for just rolling it works out good. The mowing part is what I don't like, seems like no matter how many times you have cut a field you still find something new to get tangled up in and have to spend an hour getting untangled. Hope you have a good growing season this year.

[M88A1]

We are small time here. But theres a local cattle farmer that hits all the small hay fields around him. We go 60/40 here, I dont do nothing. The fellow even applied lime at his cost.

[CJBegins]

Well, I ended up going with the guy that honestly turned into a thief last year. He was charging $30 per bale to bale someone else's grass last year. Our arrangement is 60/40.

We will see how it turns out.

[agmantoo]

Before I did more than a 50/50 deal on baling of fertilized hay I would but the crop back to the soil as organic matter and buy hay. If you can buy good fertilized average size round baled hay deduct $28 dollars from the purchase price and that is your actual cost of the hay. The cattle will pass the $28 worth of fertilizer on to your soil through the manure.

[FarmerDavid]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Before I did more than a 50/50 deal on baling of fertilized hay I would but the crop back to the soil as organic matter and buy hay. If you can buy good fertilized average size round baled hay deduct $28 dollars from the purchase price and that is your actual cost of the hay. The cattle will pass the $28 worth of fertilizer on to your soil through the manure.

In reading the rotational grazing thread you mentioned the nutrients a bale multiple times. I was curious if you thought you could increase fertility by feeding hay.

I bale alot of waterways in our row crop ground, they don't get fertilized just figure they get enough via runoff, so I'm seeing that as a cheep way to boost fertility?