to zebu or not to zebu, that is the question:)

farmgirl6 · #1 05/03/13, 12:44 PM

it has been a while since I have noodled around on this site..question, I have tried the ai route which is turning out to be complicated, ineffectual, and probably not cost effective with one or two cows unless you have all the equipment and do it yourself. it is already may and no cow in calf, over half the expensive straws I bought gone, and no milk this year! it is a bit too difficult to catch the girls in standing heat, coordinate the person doing the a.i. and the person with the tank, and hoping for success...think I will just buy a little bull that is good for both my mini and micro mini cow, and another friend can send her small cows up when she gets them....put a deposit on a cute little mini zebu; they seem hardy, fairly good tempered, a good size small size although a little odd looking - I need something small and fairly (I say fairly) safe to handle because I live in a populated area..what do you guys think? any folks with zebu experience? am going out to visit a bull I may use this year for the girls at the same place this little lad was born but want to make things simple next year, or as simple as things can be by adding a small bull to my place....

lakeportfarms · #2 05/03/13, 08:33 PM

My suggestion would be a Dexter bull. I'd check for chondrodysplasia on your cows by pulling the tail hairs, and get either a carrier of non-carrier bull depending on the results (you shouldn't breed two chondro carriers together). You're more likely to have either a market or use for the calves going this route.

wendle · #3 05/03/13, 08:58 PM

The Zebus I had didn't have much udder to speak of. Maybe is was that line, but you might want to check on that. Dexters on the other hand do produce some milk. Another option might be Jerseys depending on how much milk you want.

**gone-a-milkin** · #4 05/03/13, 09:34 PM

farmergirl6,

Long time, no see.

Hows all your cows doing anyhow?
The Mini Cooper, Annabelle (I think is her name)
and of course!
Norman.

So now you are going to add a mini Zebu bull to the mix?

I think you should give us all an update, for old times sake.

eta: I always wondered how that mini turned out.

Raymond James · #5 05/03/13, 10:31 PM

If you get a bull I think it is best to get them young and spend lots of time with them. Get a halter and teach them to walk on a lead, load into a trailer. Be careful and do not turn them into a pet. Never hand feed. The Angus x Herford I have was hand fed as a baby and likes to push against you to get his head rubbed. Not a good thing in a bull.

I traded a angus bull calf for him that was started in a halter and would load into a trailer. I did not want to breed him to his mother and aunts so we traded. The bull I have gives good calves but I really could do without him wanting to get that head rubbed. At least he is not mean I just have to keep an constant eye on him and keep reminding him that he cannot get rubbed.

I would chose individual temperament over breed. By getting him young you can work with him and get him calmed down. Look at his mother and father if you can if they have the wild eye keep looking.

I am not familiar with the breed you are talking about. I understand you have small cattle so I would go with a small breed on the bull. Jersey bull calves are relatively cheap if you get them as bottle calves the trick is getting a group , bottle/bucket feeding without making them pets, picking the one and putting the others in someone's freezer. Jersey's are small and should improve the milk production/utters on the offspring.

Elsbet · #6 05/04/13, 01:43 AM

You'll hear a lot of pros and cons on zebu, Jerseys, etc. They tend to be a slightly more flighty type of cattle, more energetic. I've always believed the trick is to train the bull calves from the time they are little, whatever your purpose is, so that they respect you, and if you are able, put them to work as you would an ox, tire them out, and keep them working and respecting you, as often as you can. They aren't going to catch on like a horse would if you are doing "meaningless" work. In countries where zebu are commonly kept, they don't get to just stand around in a pasture all day- they are put in yoke and worked, both bulls and cows.
I sort of agree with the "don't make a pet" of them advice, because too often when people make a pet of an animal, they feel safe with them, and frankly, you are never, ever, ever safe with ANY kind of livestock. Heck, you aren't safe with most pets. Your average housecat will gouge the snot out of someone if it feels ugly- imagine if it was a tiger sized animal? I sort of compromise with large animals. I did make a pet of a Jersey bull once, and he was awesome. I never, ever struck him, or allowed anyone else to. But he knew ox commands, and behaved well to word and touch. I worked with him daily. If you are unable to do that, and even if you do do that, you still don't have a guarantee of having a safe bull. No animal is safe.

Elsbet · #7 05/04/13, 01:50 AM

btw, just so you don't think I'm dissing the breeds- I have a zebu heifer, and am bottle raising two Jersey bullcalves(which won't remain bull calves for many more days), and we plan to buy a Jersey cow in milk in the next couple of weeks, lol. NOT biased against them in the least- 2 of my favorite breeds.

I just think animals are at their best behavior when they have a job to do. It keeps them entertained and wears them out. Cattle are like perpetual toddlers.

farmgirl6 · #8 05/04/13, 05:46 PM

I drove out to the farm the bull is I would like to use for the girls today and met Remy, a very nice, very handsome little miniature Jersey, he is a good size for Mini Cooper and Annabelle, at three is very laid back and seems very good natured - so will try and take them out in the next week or so for this year. I was very enchanted by the Zebu, to be honest the pictures I have seen online do not do them justice, they almost look odd, but in person they are really beautiful to the eye, deer like, graceful, tiny...Also saw a very cute zebu bull calf who is about two weeks old I put the deposit on, he is a handsome devil, likely to be polled (his mother is, and seems to have a hint of jersey in her look) but if not the owner will burn the buds off. I train all my cattle to wear halters, be caught, lead, load in a horse trailer, ext..so this little lad would be the same. I like the job idea, even if it is only dragging loads of cut branches when we prune the trees, totally agree the bottle thing, both Stormin Norman and AB were bottle babies, both much more pushy than Mini. Norman is doing just fine; he got chubby and a bit stiff on his pins so I slimmed him down and he is feeling quite froggy this spring. He is in need of a bath, as are the girls. Mini is still a delight, such a cheeky little girl, so cute...we will see if this mini Jersey covers her, if not that is fine, she is really a pet...I think I will train her to stand on a modified goat stanchon to milk, I do not relish sitting cross legged on the ground! Have tried AI with AB three times with no success...which is disappointing, the straws are from a very fine bull...but it is what it is...ah, it is good to be back chatting with everyone!

lasergrl · #9 05/08/13, 11:29 PM

Double post

lasergrl · #10 05/08/13, 11:30 PM

I've used zebu bulls. Trouble is they take forever to mature. Expect close to 2 years old before he breeds.

Btw any updates on your surprise filly?

haypoint · #11 05/09/13, 05:48 AM

I wouldn't give up on AI so quickly. While the cost of the straws and having an AI technician do it might seem costly, owning a bull will far surpass those costs. You can coordinate your heifers' heat cycles to better fit your AI technician's schedule. Your Vet can guide you on that.
Since yours are small and very trailer-able, perhaps sending them on a short vacation to the farm of an available bull. Perhaps a small quiet bull can pay your girls a short visit?

farmgirl6 · #12 08/05/13, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lasergrl

I've used zebu bulls. Trouble is they take forever to mature. Expect close to 2 years old before he breeds.

Btw any updates on your surprise filly?

Hi! she is doing well, just turned 2 in May if you can believe that, bigger girl than I expected, looks like a TB

farmgirl6 · #13 08/05/13, 08:21 PM

So I ended up with Walden, 1/2 Zebu, 1/4 scottish highland and 1/4 lowline angus

bigmudder77 · #14 08/06/13, 06:36 PM

you can always give her a shot and make her cycle and get all your ducks in a row before you give her the shot bad thing is we noticed it was 1-6 days after the shot was given average for us has been 2 days when we see them standing we breed with in 12 hours (ex we see them standing in the morning we breed after night milking, see them standing at night we breed after the morning milking)

its something to think about have whoever is doing your ai be free or at the least avaible for the next 6 days after you give the shot

and ai straws for us are $15-45 a straw cost of a bull depends on location but alot more than 10 straws and if she isnt breed after that time to ship or keep as a pet we had 1 that had one calf and never had any more calves she was aied 8 times and with the bull 3 times 390 days in milk and only milking 20lbs a day good lines in her but cant do much with her if she wouldnt rebreed so we got rid of her so bulls arnt always a sure thing it could be the cow

and ive heard stories about jersey bulls being one of the meanest bulls and we had a couple that yes id say i can see where people wouls say that and then we had some that were really good they usually get shipped 3-4 years old get too big for the new heifers and start being realted to too many

DamnearaFarm · #15 08/09/13, 01:56 PM

Interesting looking little fella you have there!

farmgirl6 · #16 08/09/13, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamblinRoseRanc

Interesting looking little fella you have there!

my daughter thought he was just hideous when I first got him, but came out the other day and said he is quite handsome now...I love the shaggy brindle coat, and more importantly, he has a wonderful, if a bit flighty temperament...no matter how "stressed" or trapped he may feel, he always turns his head away, never lowers or shakes it. He is a tentative guy for sure and cautious at least now, and considering he will only be a little taller than MC and probably slightly shorter than Annie, should be a good fit for us...plus I just like him

he moos happily when he sees me, although he is not anxious to be touched will follow me about..really a cutie, but an escape artist for sure!

farmgirl6 · #17 08/09/13, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamblinRoseRanc

Interesting looking little fella you have there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmudder77

you can always give her a shot and make her cycle and get all your ducks in a row before you give her the shot bad thing is we noticed it was 1-6 days after the shot was given average for us has been 2 days when we see them standing we breed with in 12 hours (ex we see them standing in the morning we breed after night milking, see them standing at night we breed after the morning milking)

its something to think about have whoever is doing your ai be free or at the least avaible for the next 6 days after you give the shot

and ai straws for us are $15-45 a straw cost of a bull depends on location but alot more than 10 straws and if she isnt breed after that time to ship or keep as a pet we had 1 that had one calf and never had any more calves she was aied 8 times and with the bull 3 times 390 days in milk and only milking 20lbs a day good lines in her but cant do much with her if she wouldnt rebreed so we got rid of her so bulls arnt always a sure thing it could be the cow

and ive heard stories about jersey bulls being one of the meanest bulls and we had a couple that yes id say i can see where people wouls say that and then we had some that were really good they usually get shipped 3-4 years old get too big for the new heifers and start being realted to too many

that was my struggle with AI a bit, coordinating the AI lady, access to the tank (at a friends house) and me being available for that fairly narrow period of time was proving to be very difficult with one cow, little less two if I go that route, one piece of the puzzle was always hard to coordinate. since this little guy was about to be traded for a gun for the freezer I got a nice fuzzy buying him, you know me and rescuing animals from the freezer if I can (which makes me an enormous hypocrite, as I buy a half from a friend for my freezer and still feel terrible when I know the critter is going to

slaughter)

Laura Workman · #18 08/11/13, 08:28 AM

My AI guy used a CIDR on my two Dexter heifers. Three straws total, and both were pregnant.

cedarcreekranch · #19 08/19/13, 01:44 PM

I think your Walden is beautiful! Interesting cross with the highland mixed in. ;-) Good looking guy, though, in my opinion.