hay alternative ?

[ufo_chris]

running low on hay and wondering if I can feed something like alfalfa cubes or something like that till the grass comes in . thinking of cutting hay back say 50 % if I can ,since it should only be a couple of weeks....
I know I can't substitute that much in grain so I was wondering .


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[topside1]

Chris, I'd buy alfalfa pellets seems more manageable...but that's me.

[ycanchu2]

Sounds good...but expensive. looks like buying hay would be cheaper if you can find it.

[goodhors]

Beet pulp pellets, fed wet, swell up enormously, are very filling for cattle. They are labeled as a Forage feed.

They do NEED to be fed wet, they increase in volume so much. Pellets are the cheapest form where I buy, but they do take the longest to swell fully and not be lumpy. There are also shredded beet pulp, does prepare faster, but locally, is more expensive per bag. I use hot water, it makes pellets or shreds ready faster. I use 1 part beet pulp pellets to about 4 times the amount of water. Shreds are about 50/50 to water. You may need to experiment a bit, to get it worked out. Some folks like to feed beet pulp sloppy wet, gets more water into the animal. Some animals (horses) can prefer it a bit drier, though sloppy is fine if they will eat it. Before feeding, run your hands thru, there should be no lumps left if it is ready. Pellets can take from 2 to 4 hours in a warm place to swell up fully, while shreds can be ready much faster with the hot water, 40 minutes or so. Stirring can help, but that is HEAVY stuff to move around when fully wet. Cold air slows the swelling and water absorbtion by the pellets and shreds.

I don't get any molasses in the pellets, animals don't need it anyway. Feed small amounts to get cattle used to eating it, then you can increase the quantity. With slow introduction, a bit of time, all our cattle and horses have liked eating it.

You could mix the wet beet pulp with cubes of alfalfa, alfalfa/timothy, or any other cubes you can find. Beet pulp does help balance the higher calcium and other things in Alfalfa, so minerals are not all one kind.

Check prices of the cubes, beet pulp pellets, before jumping in with that feed program. You might be able to locate hay to hang on until pasture is going.

Be aware that sudden change to an all-grass diet CAN cause laminitus in cattle because their stomachs are not used to it, can't digest it overnight! Cattle have had hay all winter, are used to digesting hay! Better to let them have limited grazing for a while to get body digestion systems changed enough to handle new grass in quantities.

[ufo_chris]

Thanks , I wasn't sure if the pellets have other stuff, had I cattle nutritionist tell me I cant replace too much of their hay with grain type feed but I never went on to ask about alfalfa cubes or pellets.
I see him where I work sometimes and ask him 'free' questions every now and then....I guess Dairy farmers pay a lot of money for his advice!

Originally Posted by topside1

Chris, I'd buy alfalfa pellets seems more manageable...but that's me.

[ufo_chris]

Originally Posted by ycanchu2

Sounds good...but expensive. looks like buying hay would be cheaper if you can find it.

Well,I'd have to figure it out ,I thought i could buy 4x5 bales for $50 but now can't find any w/o driving really far or paying $100 .
So how would the alfalfa pellets work? Would it be like 1 lb of pellets would replace 2 lbs of Hay?

[ufo_chris]

Thanks Goodhors, have never fed Beet pulp ,just heard of it.... how much of that can I substitute for hay?
Would it be cheaper to pay $100 a bale hay?

[Judy in IN]

FODDER! I've been working up to the cattle. Will start with their biscuits in the morning. .

Now let the flaming begin.

[peteyfoozer]

I'd also make sure to feed the hay before the supplements. My understanding is that the rumen mat helps aid in digestion. I know our vet told me to make sure at least to feed the hay before any grain.

[ycanchu2]

Originally Posted by ufo_chris

Well,I'd have to figure it out ,I thought i could buy 4x5 bales for $50 but now can't find any w/o driving really far or paying $100 .
So how would the alfalfa pellets work? Would it be like 1 lb of pellets would replace 2 lbs of Hay?

I don't know how much hay you are needing but I would look up Internet Hay Exchange. You may have to get a truck load.35 to 38 rolls....@ about $30 to $40/roll plus probably $30/roll for trucking if it has to come very far.

[ufo_chris]

thanks y. I did find hay like that but only need 2 or 4 at the most ,if I could find it for 30 or so delivered I would buy a whole load and just sell the rest....
found 4x4 for 70.....


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[ufo_chris]

what would be the equivalent of say 10 lbs hay in alfalfa pellets ?
is it 2 to 1 ?
that would help me figure out which way to go...
thanks !


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[topside1]

Chris, cattle can only eat a certain amount of roughage/grains per day. For example a 300 pound steer would eat 9 pounds of something per day. Lets just say 9# of hay. Now only feed him 6# of hay and 3# of pellets. The crude fiber percentage of hay varies with maturity so keep that in mind, think gut fill. A 300 pound steer is not going to eat 30# of hay per day, just making a point....Go to go, hope this helps...Topside

[waterbuffy]

Don't know how far you want to travel but I still see square bales $2-4 in SE OH, round bales $25-50 depending on size and quality.

[ufo_chris]

Found this.....
whats confusing ...says they need at least 6 lbs of hay then gives 3 in the chart ...?
Alternative Feeds for Cattle During Drought

R. Baird LeValley1 (10/09) Quick Facts...

• Drought is a part of the normal production cycle. Dealing with these dry periods and decreased feed supplies needs to be part of the overall management plan.
• In many cases, the best solution for cow/calf producers is to utilize a limit-fed, high grain diet fed in drylot or semi-confinement.
• Substitute 1 pound of grain or other concentrate feed for 2 pounds of alfalfa hay or 3 pounds of grass hay.
• Since intake on concentrate diets is restricted, cattle may appear gaunt and behave as though hungry, however after 14 to 21 days, they will adapt to the reduction in feed intake.

Drought conditions greatly reduce the available forage for livestock. They also impact forage and rangeland production across the state. Short and long-term ramifications will continue to affect the management of livestock. Livestock have been sold, or relocated out of state in record numbers; however, there are alternatives for the remaining population.
Alternative Feeding Options

When deciding on an alternative feeding program, there are several options to consider. The goal is to re-breed cows while maintaining calving intervals, maintain pounds of calf produced per cow, and minimize feed cost per pound of calf sold. When considering feed options, think about the following:

• Design a feeding program to fully utilize local feeds,
• Supplement low-quality feeds correctly,
• Analyze forages and feed precisely,
• Substitute 1 pound of grain or other concentrate feed for 2 pounds of alfalfa hay or 3 pounds of grass hay,
• Carefully balance every ration against the animal’s requirements,
• Make every effort to reduce feed losses,
• Feed the highest quality feeds to animals that have higher feed requirements (i.e., growing replacement heifers or growing calves),
• Feed the lower quality roughages to cows in the middle-third stage of pregnancy,
• Save the better quality feeds for periods before and after calving, and
• Treat low-quality roughages with various feed additives. Additives can improve palatability and feeding quality. (Brownson, 1996).

Stretching the Hay Pile

Substitute 1 pound of grain or other concentrate feed for 2 pounds of alfalfa hay or 3 pounds of grass hay. Do not exceed grain feeding by 0.4 percent of the live body weight when forage is the major component of the diet. Grain is not always practical to feed, but there are ways to feed it even in pasture or rangeland situations. Many producers use barrels, gated pipe split in half, bunks, or old hog feeders mounted on a trailer. Other management options can be found at www.ext.colostate.edu/drought/altfeed.html.
Relocating the cowherd into drylot is a management alterative that may allow producers to take advantage of grains and byproduct feeds (Wright, 2002). Diets for drylot cows are formulated to meet the nutrient requirements of the cows while minimizing feed costs. As a result, intake is generally limited and more concentrate feeds are included to cheapen the diets.
Since intake on concentrate diets is restricted, cattle may appear gaunt and behave as though hungry. After 14 to 21 days, they will adapt to the reduction in feed intake, but they may continue to appear gaunt. Cattle should adapt to high-grain diets in seven to 10 days and should be observed closely during that time. A minimal amount of roughage is required to maintain rumen function. As a rule of thumb, cows should receive at least 0.5 percent of their body weight as roughage (90 percent dry matter basis). Thus, a 1,200 pound cow should receive at least 6 pounds of roughage per day.
In many cases, the best alternative for cow/calf producers is to utilize a limit-fed, high-grain diet fed in drylot or semi-confinement. The most expensive nutrient for a cow is energy (TDN). Table 1 shows the nutritional requirements and typical rations for beef cows—either a fall or spring calving cow where the calf has been weaned or a lactating cow producing 14 to 16 pounds of milk per day (calves should be creep-fed). The initial reaction of many people evaluating these diets is that cows will not survive on that small amount of feed. But, it’s important to keep in mind that grain is a concentrated energy source with 10 pounds of grain supplying the energy equivalent of 15 to 20 pounds of hay.
Cows should be slowly adapted to high-grain feeding, just like feedlot cattle. A suggested practice is to begin with 2 to 3 pounds of whole shelled corn per head, per day and free-choice roughage. Then, increase the grain by 1 pound per day, and reduce the hay by 2 pounds each day until the final ration is attained. Make sure plenty of bunk space is provided so all cows can eat at the same time. Feed two times per day if possible. Once the cows are switched over to the limit-fed, grain-based ration, observe their body condition (fleshiness) over time and adjust the grain as needed to maintain adequate condition. Obviously, the rations shown in Table 1 represent high levels of grain feeding in order to minimize the amount of scarce forage used. However, other proportions of grain and roughage can be used depending on the forage supply, so long as the ration is formulated to meet the cow’s nutrient requirements.
Table 1. Possible high grain rations for dry and lactating cows. Dry Cows - 1050 lbs.* Lactating Cows - 1050 lbs* 1. Requirements: 1. Requirements: TDN - 9.2 lbs TDN - 13 lbs. Protein - 1.3 lbs Protein - 2.3 lbs Phosphorus - 16 grams Phosphorus - 24 grams Calcium - 16 grams Calcium - 32 grams Vitamin A - 25,000 IU Vitamin A - 40,000 IU 2. Possible Ration: 2. Possible Ration: Corn - 10 lbs Corn - 13 lbs Hay** - 3 lbs Hay** - 4 lbs Soybean Meal - 0.5 lbs Soybean Meal - 2.0 lbs Free Choice Mineral Free Choice Mineral (high calcium feedlot type with Vitamin A) (high calcium feedlot type with Vitamin A) * For each 100 pound increase in body weight, increase TDN by .7 pound and protein by .1 pound per day. ** Assumes average to poor quality grass hay, or crop residues. If good alfalfa hay is fed, no supplemental protein is needed by the dry cow and the lactating cow would need only 1 pound of soybean meal or equivalent. Urea can be used as the protein source in these rations due to the higher energy level.

[ufo_chris]

Judy ,I was thinking about the fodder too ,till I read that thread with all the negative stuff .....
So I quit looking into it.
One Question, I know I could look it up, but do you need lights for that ,or put the rack by a window ?
Thanks!

[Judy in IN]

UFO Chris,

I am VERY happy with the barley sprouts. My suggestion is to try sprouting a couple of trays in the bath tub and make up your own mind.

You don't need grow lights- just a room with a window.

[Wanda]

I do think you need to determine the amount of roughage that is needed for rumen function. Some alfalfa is ground very fine before it is pelatised and does not act as roughage in the rumen. I would think that the fodder should be classed more as a grain than roughage as far as the rumen is concerned.

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by goodhors

Be aware that sudden change to an all-grass diet CAN cause laminitus in cattle because their stomachs are not used to it, can't digest it overnight! Cattle have had hay all winter, are used to digesting hay! Better to let them have limited grazing for a while to get body digestion systems changed enough to handle new grass in quantities.

　
I had not heard of laminitis in cattle from grass consumption. Could only find it related to laminitis in fat horses.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/musculoskeletal_system/lameness_in_horses/laminitis_in_horses.html
　

Laminitis secondary to equine metabolic syndrome most commonly occurs in overweight horses and ponies, and is commonly exacerbated when grazing lush pastures.

The only cause of laminitis in cattle discussed is from too much carbohydrate, as with grain.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/musculoskeletal_system/lameness_in_cattle/laminitis_in_cattle.html#v3283392?qt=&sc=&alt=

Only problems I know from lush grass in cattle is they get runny, and possible mineral deficiency (magnesium), and perhaps more parasites.

[ufo_chris]

they can get fog fever but that's more a fall thing I guess which i don't understand...


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