Tame or wary? Beef cattle

bourbonred · #1 03/06/13, 07:57 AM

We've all heard the horror stories of male intact bottle raised farm animals. On a different note, with our beef cow-calf herd, which is better, hand tame or wary but handle-able. We have a herd of angus that we can move from pasture to pasture easy enough. Yet in the field there are but a handfull that we could approach and touch. DH decided to round up all the heifers (19) and put them in the barn to make them tamer and feed them up some. I'm fine with that--the youngers needed more groceries. It's great to have a fearless relationship with your cattle--until you have to do something they don't want such as band and tag their newborn. The tamest cow we have has been so sweet, yet to me she's scary when she has a newborn. She has never hurt us. But I think she could, not meaning to do anything but protect her calf. DH just ignores her and gets the job done. I think she's like that because she has no wary fear of us. So which is better? How do ya'll that show cattle deal with this?

opportunity · #2 03/06/13, 09:46 AM

i have animals from haulter broke to wild that we have worked with. The wild ones go to town fast as they are not fun to deal with. They will take you when you mess with the calf but you know they will. I have another cow that I have wanted to sell but hubby loves her she is very tame you can do anything with her as long as you DO NOT TOUCH BABY she has taken me (ripped my clothing off moved me 50 feet and hubby saved me after her first baby) this year she ramed hubby after he taged her calf it was her 5th calf. Once the calf is older she is always good again.
The best ones to work with seem to be semi tame they will come to eat a hay bale but don't want to be touched. They are easy to move but will let you work the calf becasue they don't want to be that close to you.
I have more problems with the ones that eat out of my hand as they are not afraid of me in the least and I must watch them closer.

lonelyfarmgirl · #3 03/06/13, 09:54 AM

We do NOT tolerate human aggression. I have a few tame cows, some were bottle-fed and so was my ultra-tame bull, but most are 'arms-length' animals. If they drop a newborn in the slop or have it in bad weather, if we can't pick it up and walk away with it without fear of getting run down, the cow is gone, no exceptions. GONE
GONE GONE GONE PERIOD

I don't know how many times we have had to pick up a baby and carry to shelter in bad weather with mad mooing mama 3 feet behind and following. Or how many times because of bad weather I've had to tube feed or treat a baby in the field or in the 3-sided shelter with mama smelling my face while I do it. I pop her nose and say back up! She's mad, but does nothing.

I don't need to be able to pet the cow or halter lead it, but if they touch me when I touch their baby, they are on the next butcher truck out of here. End. Of. Story.

It's not worth getting killed over.

agmantoo · #4 03/06/13, 10:00 AM

bourbonred

I do not have the answer to your specific question but here is the manner I deal with my herd of commercial black cattle.

The cattle and I have somewhat of an arms length agreement. We never touch each other. I walk among them and they walk near me but we do not touch. There is no obvious fear among us. years ago I did send a few crazy behaving animals to the sale. IMO bad habits are learned from other cattle. I often hear how angus cattle are unpredictable or flighty. I do not find that true with my herd. After a calf is a few days old I can walk into the area the herd is grazing and catch a day and band it and install an ear tag. The mother of the calf will occasionally object by vocalizing or showing dissatisfaction with what is happening but not to the point of intimidating me from doing the task. Most of the cows do little or nothing. By having your cattle hand tamed is the reason IMO as to why your animals behave as they do. The cattle have you on the same level of respect as the have the rest of the herd. You need to rank higher in the pecking order!

Otter · #5 03/06/13, 10:14 AM

In any situation, from zookeepers to livestock, there are 2 relatively safe styles of animal handling and one that's deadly.

The safe styles are either being able to handle them all over, like my horse, dairy goat or dog. I can walk into this animal's space and control it. I can touch and maneuver any part of it's body at my discretion.

Or, I can't get near it. It won't let me inside it's bubble of personal space and it's sure as heck not coming into mine. I can control the animal by "pushing" at it's comfort zone, the way a sheepdog handles a flock.

The ticking time bomb is when you have a "friendly" animal. The kind that will come up to you for treats but won't let you touch it's hip. Nose stroking is what it puts up with to get what it wants from you, that doesn't count as being able to handle it.
This is HUGELY dangerous because now you have an animal that has no problem at all with invading YOUR space - but still keeps you out of it's own. The animal is fully in control and perfectly well aware that it is controlling this encounter. It has no respect for you, and since it controls the encounter, if you're doing something it doesn't like, watch out. This is a really common way for people to get hurt or killed.

RedDirt Cowgirl · #6 03/06/13, 10:45 AM

Is this a matter of trusting an animal to behave a certain way? Short term experience, especially with horses, builds belief that all's fine with that. Long term, generational experience, tells a different story. Any animal that outweighs you can take you down, intentionally or not. A look at the change in zookeeping elephants is a guide to me - don't put yourself in a position where you can get hurt.

fitz · #7 03/06/13, 03:54 PM

Agree with Agmantoo.

fitz

MO_cows · #8 03/06/13, 04:19 PM

We will always err on the side of safety. Even though it is a good thing for a momma cow to be protective of her calf, if she can't tell the difference between her master and a coyote, she's gotta go. Bigger operations with better facilities and younger, tougher people doing the work might accept an over-zealous protective momma cow as part of the deal, but we wouldn't. Also there are still places with wolves, cougars and bears to worry about, so I'm sure cow manners are not as important as protection for the calf in that case. But for our little outfit, the cows have to play nice.

Our first calf born, which was to a first calf heifer, she was sooooo protective of that calf that she charged at some chickens who ventured too close to it. This was unnerving, because we needed to get a weight on the calf! But I walked up to them calmly, trying to project confidence, but also when the calf was next to the fence so I could escape if needed. I picked up the calf and weighed it, and super-momma just stood there and watched me. Whew! Good girl! None of our cows has ever offered to be aggressive when we handle a new calf. But we still don't ever want to be complacent when they are full of hormones and love for their new baby.

TedH71 · #9 03/07/13, 08:26 PM

Always have a good cur dog with you when working or walking around cattle. They'll save your hide time to time.

oregon woodsmok · #10 03/08/13, 07:32 PM

I like my cattle tame but respectful.

I want to be able to give them a scratch and to walk up and put pour-on on their back while they eat their grain.

But I am the herd boss and I walk a straight line and they had better move fast and get out of my way. They don't dare bump me when I walk near them with feed in my arms.

I call my cattle in every day and give them a tiny bite of grain to keep them tame and easy to handle. So far, when there is a calf, the cow knows me well enough to trust me with the baby. But any cow that ever threatens a human is gone, and right now.

I want good temperaments on my livestock and temperament is inherited. No high strung cattle here. No fence jumpers, no cows that think they might to take over the position of herd boss, no cows that think they can swing their horns as a threat.

In addition to that, cattle are dangerous even when they have no intention of hurting you. It's really important to have the right type of fences, feed bunks, chutes, and head gates. Never let your guard down and never get trapped between the cows and the fence. Always have an escape route.

I always have a good dog with me, that is good and quiet with the cattle and doesn't get them upset. I can call the cows in, and if I need to vaccinate or treat in any way, I just put hay in the mixing pen and then, after they finish that, push them gently into the chute and through the head gate. Work 'em quiet, don't get them upset, and you reduce your chances of getting hurt.

If you don't give them time to think, or you frighten them, they will start crashing around, and then they are more dangerous. Remember, they don't have to intend to hurt you to kill you. They are very heavy and very strong, and not particularly sensitive to touch. They can crush you against a fence and not really be aware that you are there.

oregon woodsmok · #11 03/08/13, 07:36 PM

Adding, if you must bring a calf in, please get someone to help you. Carry the calf in the back of a pickup truck, not in your arms. No matter how tame a cow has been you can not guarantee what she will do the next time, and it only takes a second of out-of-character behavior to injure you severely.

lonelyfarmgirl · #12 03/08/13, 09:52 PM

In our situation, our only option is to carry the calf. Hubby and I always do it together. He carries and I walk behind him, staying between him and the cow. Even though I am confident that none of our cows would ever hurt either of us in this type of situation, when we do have to carry away a calf, I always carry my horn whacking stick as a precaution.

bourbonred · #13 03/10/13, 04:04 PM

Though I was only going on my herd experience, this is is exactly what I was thinking as far as cattle behavior. None of our herd has been aggressive. The tamest (a nose-petter, just as Otter described) has pawed the ground and snorted, and bellowed, but never has touched or pushed, or charged toward us (but I was intimidated--I tried not to let it show). I guess the halter-broke cattle are so tame that there's no problems with them knowing who's boss.