Cattle and deer

[tinah]

If I run two or three cows on a piece of property will they run the deer off?

[dkhern]

no they wont hang out together but cattle wont make them stop comming arround

[SueMc]

I wish they'd run the deer off! I do think the deer are eating the cows expensive minerals too!

[nchobbyfarm]

Last fall I pulled up to find three does with their heads in the mineral feeder.

[montysky]

Like the others have posted Cattle, will not run off the Deer. I have a lot more then three head and I see deer all the time.

[haypoint]

In northern Michigan, a few deer carry TB and have been able to spread it to a number of cattle. It is an ongoing problem keeping the deer out of the feed, water, pastures, etc. They spread it by nasal discharge.
So, farmers are limiting contact by changing the way they feed cattle. Only enough silage dumped that the cows can eat in a day. No storing round bales near the woods, fencing cattle out of streams and 10 foot fences where they can afford to.

[pancho]

Years ago we had to kill a large buck because he would get up in the feed trough and keep the cows from eating.

[Bret]

I agree that they do not hang out together but they share lots of the same space at certain parts of the day.

A couple of years ago,at dawn, I stood in "the bottom land" in the middle of my small herd of all black cows in my hooded dark sweatshirt and black cowboy hat, holding my cup of coffee. Just enjoying the moment. I watched a small group of deer loafing 30 yards away on the other side of a poly-wire electric fence strand. A yearling deer stretched and sniffed at the wire and got a shock that made a snap sound that I could hear easily. I watched the deer knocked to the ground for a split second, before the deer trotted off and away from the wire.

One year, I shot a buck in front of me about 40 yards away, while my cows sniffed me through the fence behind me. I had been sitting with my back against a wooden post.

[G. Seddon]

Also, Johnes is a concern with deer in the pasture.

http://www.johnes.org/general/faqs.html#7

[tinah]

thanks, everybody. I was hoping that the two could co-exist.

[ksfarmer]

Originally Posted by tinah

thanks, everybody. I was hoping that the two could co-exist.

They can and do. The deer can be a nuisance , but, have never caused any problems on our ranch. They will eat on the stored alfalfa bales especially in bad weather (snow) and they do utilize mineral and salt feeders. I know there are supposed to be a disease risk, but we never had any problems that way. My neighbor had a buck deer that came and ate out of the bunks he fed cattle in. Said the cattle just moved over a ways and gave him room. I think maybe after a time this guy had some very good fattened venison.

[Crazy Farmgirl]

Deer could care less about the cows and will readily enter the pasture with them and share the minerals/salt or what ever else you put out for the cows. While it my seem like a "good" thing but that is not necessarily the case; they take out fence, essentially steal food from the cows and potentially spread disease and parasites. My outlook on the deal is that there is plenty of FREE food outside of my fences that they are welcome to eat they are NOT welcome in my fences for several reasons!!

This quote is a prime example of how many feel but the reality is most don't know what the deer have or have "shared" with your herd. For many diseases you don't have to have a problem on your farm but if one of the neighboring farms within the deer's home range has then your herd is at risk of getting infected!!

I know there are supposed to be a disease risk, but we never had any problems that way.

haypointIn northern Michigan, a few deer carry TB and have been able to spread it to a number of cattle. It is an ongoing problem keeping the deer out of the feed, water, pastures, etc. They spread it by nasal discharge.
So, farmers are limiting contact by changing the way they feed cattle. Only enough silage dumped that the cows can eat in a day. No storing round bales near the woods, fencing cattle out of streams and 10 foot fences where they can afford to.

I live in the this region of northern Michigan and let me tell you the things Haypoint listed are just a few of the things that the state REQUIRES that we do, oh and if you don't you can't sell cattle and it's now all basically at our expense!! Not to mention we have to test yearly for TB and cannot move animals without a negative TB test within the previous 60 days (yearly test is free but any others come out of my pocket...and they don't cover the cost to fix anything that the idiots who come out to test tear up either)...Sorry the list is never-ending and the source of many sore arse's after the state comes in condemns your herd and confiscates them pays you pennies and puts you out of business because your fence-line neighbor has come up positive for TB or better yet the guy who lives 50 miles away from you who you bought cattle from 5 years ago tests positive!!

I realize this is not the case all over the country but let me tell you we all felt the same as many of you who naively believe it won't happen to your herd until we found out "OH YES IT CAN/WILL"! Do yourself a favor watch the deer outside your fence and actively work to keep them there, it is not worth the risk!!

Sorry for the rant!!

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Crazy Farmgirl

Deer could care less about the cows and will readily enter the pasture with them and share the minerals/salt or what ever else you put out for the cows. While it my seem like a "good" thing but that is not necessarily the case; they take out fence, essentially steal food from the cows and potentially spread disease and parasites. My outlook on the deal is that there is plenty of FREE food outside of my fences that they are welcome to eat they are NOT welcome in my fences for several reasons!!

This quote is a prime example of how many feel but the reality is most don't know what the deer have or have "shared" with your herd. For many diseases you don't have to have a problem on your farm but if one of the neighboring farms within the deer's home range has then your herd is at risk of getting infected!!






I live in the this region of northern Michigan and let me tell you the things Haypoint listed are just a few of the things that the state REQUIRES that we do, oh and if you don't you can't sell cattle and it's now all basically at our expense!! Not to mention we have to test yearly for TB and cannot move animals without a negative TB test within the previous 60 days (yearly test is free but any others come out of my pocket...and they don't cover the cost to fix anything that the idiots who come out to test tear up either)...Sorry the list is never-ending and the source of many sore arse's after the state comes in condemns your herd and confiscates them pays you pennies and puts you out of business because your fence-line neighbor has come up positive for TB or better yet the guy who lives 50 miles away from you who you bought cattle from 5 years ago tests positive!!

I realize this is not the case all over the country but let me tell you we all felt the same as many of you who naively believe it won't happen to your herd until we found out "OH YES IT CAN/WILL"! Do yourself a favor watch the deer outside your fence and actively work to keep them there, it is not worth the risk!!

Sorry for the rant!!

I too am sorry for your rant. My turn.
I don’t raise cattle in the TB Zone. But at one time, because of cattle found in Michigan with TB, all cattle were tested. It was discovered that there were some TB positive herds in the north-east part of the lower peninsula. Testing and culling and tracing and culling has been going on for a while.
The taxpayers of the state pay a Vet and helpers with special gates and cattle chutes, to come to your farm to do a complete herd test for TB, every year, for the past 15-20 years, and if something gets broken while they are helping move your cattle, you are mad? I wonder what it is they “tore up” on your place. If a calf gets injured in the free testing process, the state pays you for it. As a taxpayer, I’d say that’s normal farming and the owner should just “suck it up”.
What are TB infected cattle worth? Does the State pay you market price? You don’t need to answer that, I know they do. There are some real unfair situations, but rare. I know of a guy that bought a show steer for $25,000 that had been exposed to a TB cow, out of state. He got market price for that steer. That’s a kick in the arse for him, but as a taxpayer, I shouldn’t have to shield him from a bad purchase, should I?
If you buy cattle from an infected herd, you can expect to be TB tested, not put out of business. If your neighbor’s cattle test positive for TB, you can expect to be tested, not put out of business.
If you get a test that shows suspect for TB, who pays the Vet and assistant to come do another more costly test? The taxpayer does. Who pays to send it to the Lab and who pays the Lab fees. The taxpayer. Then if that is positive, who arranges to pay you for the cow or arranges for the cow to go to a special slaughter facility, sends out staff to seal the trailer before it leaves your farm and hauls the head to the Lab for further testing? The taxpayer.
Those that want the government out of their backyard, best think about all the cattle owners that would be out of business with widespread TB all over. Who’d buy Michigan untested cattle? No one.
No one would buy cattle without both a recent TB test and an ear tag that proves that is the cow that was tested.
TB positive herds aren’t “condemned”. They are quarantined. Big difference.
As far as management practices that limit cow/deer contact. As a taxpayer, I don’t think I should have to buy your infected cattle if you aren’t taking any steps to keep them from contracting TB. You think the taxpayer should build you tall fences so you can stay in the cattle business?
Feeding/baiting deer has created this problem by permitting the un-natural act of deer feeding together, nose to nose, spreading TB in the wild deer. Keeping deer that may carry TB away from cattle is tough.

If you want to pin blame pin it on the so called sportsmen that bait. But as a taxpayer, I say the State is doing plenty to help the farmers in those counties keep raising cattle, while protecting the market for the rest of us.

[Crazy Farmgirl]

Originally Posted by haypoint

I too am sorry for your rant. My turn.
I don’t raise cattle in the TB Zone. But at one time, because of cattle found in Michigan with TB, all cattle were tested. It was discovered that there were some TB positive herds in the north-east part of the lower peninsula. Testing and culling and tracing and culling has been going on for a while.
The taxpayers of the state pay a Vet and helpers with special gates and cattle chutes, to come to your farm to do a complete herd test for TB, every year, for the past 15-20 years, and if something gets broken while they are helping move your cattle, you are mad? I wonder what it is they “tore up” on your place. If a calf gets injured in the free testing process, the state pays you for it. As a taxpayer, I’d say that’s normal farming and the owner should just “suck it up”.
What are TB infected cattle worth? Does the State pay you market price? You don’t need to answer that, I know they do. There are some real unfair situations, but rare. I know of a guy that bought a show steer for $25,000 that had been exposed to a TB cow, out of state. He got market price for that steer. That’s a kick in the arse for him, but as a taxpayer, I shouldn’t have to shield him from a bad purchase, should I?
If you buy cattle from an infected herd, you can expect to be TB tested, not put out of business. If your neighbor’s cattle test positive for TB, you can expect to be tested, not put out of business.
If you get a test that shows suspect for TB, who pays the Vet and assistant to come do another more costly test? The taxpayer does. Who pays to send it to the Lab and who pays the Lab fees. The taxpayer. Then if that is positive, who arranges to pay you for the cow or arranges for the cow to go to a special slaughter facility, sends out staff to seal the trailer before it leaves your farm and hauls the head to the Lab for further testing? The taxpayer.
Those that want the government out of their backyard, best think about all the cattle owners that would be out of business with widespread TB all over. Who’d buy Michigan untested cattle? No one.
No one would buy cattle without both a recent TB test and an ear tag that proves that is the cow that was tested.
TB positive herds aren’t “condemned”. They are quarantined. Big difference.
As far as management practices that limit cow/deer contact. As a taxpayer, I don’t think I should have to buy your infected cattle if you aren’t taking any steps to keep them from contracting TB. You think the taxpayer should build you tall fences so you can stay in the cattle business?
Feeding/baiting deer has created this problem by permitting the un-natural act of deer feeding together, nose to nose, spreading TB in the wild deer. Keeping deer that may carry TB away from cattle is tough.

If you want to pin blame pin it on the so called sportsmen that bait. But as a taxpayer, I say the State is doing plenty to help the farmers in those counties keep raising cattle, while protecting the market for the rest of us.

You obviously have no clue how things work and are done here in the "cash cow TB zone" of MI.

If your neighbor comes up positive or you buy cattle and later that original owner tests positive the states first choice is to condemn your herd and destroy all the animals, unless you can pay attorney fees to fight this you have to surrender. Indemnity payments are made on a avg sale price determined by a statistical calculation of similar cows at cull sales around the US and is paid by the federal government who also pays the state to have the vets and helpers who come to the farms the state then turns around and slaughters those cows at a special plant (built with the latest and greatest technology paid for by the federal gov) any that do not show gross lesions are then sold to a packer and the money returns to the states general fund (not paid back to the gov ie taxpayers)

While it is true that we get one "free" test a year, that is only good for 60 days and then if you sell animals any other time you pay the fees and if there is a positive or suspect on the those tests you pay them to come back to do more testing of those individual cows. And just for your info there is no EARTAG to prove that testing was done or is negative, that is a computer record that if you are lucky and carefully maintain your records might be accurate!! The RFID tag that I assume you are referring to is required for ALL animals moved within the US, along with that we are req'd too have another form of ear tag that is visible/readable from 50 ft with some sort of farm # system on it (we have to pay for those ourselves too)

The taxpayers of the state pay a Vet and helpers with special gates and cattle chutes, to come to your farm to do a complete herd test for TB,

UUMMM No they don't, those "special gates and chutes" were not taken care of properly and the state decided to sell them (keep the profits and not replace) and now the farmer is required to have handling facilities built and chutes in place to the states specifications. Yes there was a cost share program set up but it had to be done to their standards and engineered to make the program cost prohibitive for most farmers, same as the other so called "help from the state". I built facilities OUT OF MY POCKET to suit their rules/regulations and when he Vet and "never handles a cow before" helpr showed up they proceeded to run my cows ragged got them worked up to the point that the herd busted the 2x6 rough sawn oak boards on the holding pen and then they proceeded to chase them all over hell's half acre taking out fence from one end of my farm to the other. I had to physically stop them and chase them off my farm before any more damage was done. No tax payer payed for those fences and handling facilities (which are well built by most farmers standards) I did and when they left the path of destruction I then got to pay for it again! I also had to pay to have them come back out to do the testing they did not finish!!

The state has also decided that testing and eliminating the problem in the deer herd (which is where the original problem was traced to: infected deer imported from MN to a large "Deer Ranch" in NE MI) is too much money and the fed gov won't give them any more money for it so the only testing/removing that is done in that respect is deer harvested during deer season and the farmers who choose to use the "disease control permits" and are asked to voluntarily have them tested. So I get an unlimited number of kill tags every year and I kill every deer I can I also have proper fencing and feed my cows where the state has said is ok, store my hay where the state says is ok along with every other thing they have said I have to do AT MY OWN EXPENSE (as have many of the others)!! NOT yours or any other tax payer!

Did you also know that the state has mandated a quota of "suspect" cows that the Vet MUST find on a monthly/yearly basis!! This is counter productive of eradicating anything!! The state does not want to eradicate it they are happy with the cash flow they are generating off this deal and now that they have virtually alienated this tiny area of the state while the rest of the state does business as usual all is good for them, this will never go away!

Many on the outside looking in have had this ray of sunshine bs blown up their butts that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy about how well this program is working and how it is handled but those of us who live here and deal with the stark reality of the corruption and politics behind it know different!! As taxpayers we should all be mad as hell about this program and it wasteful expenditures of gov funds while our state collects profits.

Of course as usual most people don't know the facts about what the gov does they see sh*t on the internet or read someone ramblings that are well put together and since they saw it on the internet IT MUST BE TRUE!! So continues the march of the sheeple...

I love it when those who very little about a subject put all kinds of crap together make it sound good and preach it to the masses.....no wonder our country is such a mess!!