Dexters with Angus cattle. Any one tried this?

thestartupman · #1 12/14/12, 09:05 AM

I have thought about running a bull dexter, and two dexter cows with 15-20 Angus mix cow calf pairs. Has anyone tried this in a rotational pasture system? If so, how did it work out for you? Did the Dexter bull bred the Angus, or was the size difference too much? If they did bred, how did the birthing, and off spring do? Do you end up with horned off spring. Any other thoughts on this would be appreciated. Before anyone ask, the reason I was thinking about this for my self was to have a milk cow, and to use the Dexters for my own meat, and the Angus to sell.

G. Seddon · #2 12/14/12, 09:18 AM

If Genebo sees your post, he can respond with quite a bit of information about Dangus beef!

Good idea to use the Dexter bull over the Angus cows, not the other way around. A non-chondro bull will have no trouble with breeding larger cows (a chondro bull probably wouldn't either, actually).

Being from Missouri, you should have no trouble finding any Dexters! Missouri is overflowing with them: http://www.dextercattle.org/pdf/Nov2012;pdf.pdf

If you're not familiar with Dexters, read up on them and ask questions; go see before you buy, especially a possible milk cow. There's a lot to learn about them.

Gabriel · #3 12/14/12, 10:05 AM

That combination has been discussed quite a bit here. Try the search function.

oregon woodsmok · #4 12/14/12, 12:49 PM

It will only work as long as you plan to sell all the calves and all the beef private treaty.

Aren't Dexters available in polled? They are, aren't they? I wouldn't mess with horns unless there was no way around it.

haypoint · #5 12/14/12, 04:03 PM

You asked for info from those that have tried it and I haven't. If that's all you want to know, please don't read this.

Your larger Angus cows will be producing a smaller less beefy calf. Therefore, you will be "earning" less from your cows, while still feeding the larger Angus.

Sort of like baking a single cupcake in a commercial oven.

Would this be to gain some milking ability above the Angus? Dexters aren't the greatest milkers already and add the angus and you lose whatever temperment you hoped to get from the Dexter. By the way more than a few Dexter are wild as the wind.
Would this be to gain some quality to your Angus? Angus is known for its quality, adding Dexter DNA just decreases the amount of beef you could hope for.

Would this be because you don't have a quality Angus bull and don't have anyone around to do AI and you don't want to learn?

Hey, its a free country. You can do what you want with your cattle. Beef prices are at all time highs. Angus is selling above all other breeds and you want to negate that advantage and grow a smaller crossbreed?

Be sure to check the disposition of those Dexter heifers. Do they have the temperment to be a family milk cow. The one's I've seen didn't.

genebo · #6 12/14/12, 08:26 PM

Calves that are born to an Angus cow, sired by a Dexter bull, will always be polled, unless there is some mixed horned blood in the Angus.

The calves will also all be black, again unless there is something other than Angus in the cows.

These calves will qualify as Certifed Angus cattle, since the requirement is that they be 1/2 Angus, have black hides and be polled. You can sell them on any livestock auction as Angus.

Pure Angus steers reach about 1200# at harvest age of 17 months. The Dexter/Angus calves will reach about 900# at the same age. You can stock more of them.

If you are selling them as feeder calves, then at weaning an Angus will weigh about 550-600#. A Dangus calf will weigh about 400-450#. The price for the smaller calves is higher per pound.

You can pack more Dangus feeder calves into the same size trailer, saving on transportation costs.

The best use of Dangus calves is for sale as specialty beef. The Dexter adds taste and tenderness above what you might expect. Customers come back for more. Over time, you should be able to develop a client list to buy every steer you can deliver, at premium prices.

Dexter cows make great family milk cows. Their production is generally too low to be useful as dairy cows, but that helps them avoid many of the milk-related problems that heavier producers are prone to.

The Dexter breed is renowned for it's gentleness. Wild Dexter range cows can't be expected to be tame, but domesticated Dexters can be as friendly as your family dog. I have milked several of my Dexters without any form of restraints, just by giving her a bucket or bale of feed to work on while being milked.

There's a creamery in New York state that milks only Dexters. A friend of mine milks 4 Dexter cows and sells the milk on cow shares. He has a very loyal following. The milk has many features to recommend it.

Calves from a Dexter bull over an Angus cow will be lower in birth weight than if by an Angus bull. I have customers that buy Dexter semen from me just for that reason alone. They use Dexter semen to AI their first time calvers, especially over breeds that are known to have birthing difficulties, like Charolais.

ramiller5675 · #7 12/14/12, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genebo

...Pure Angus steers reach about 1200# at harvest age of 17 months. The Dexter/Angus calves will reach about 900# at the same age. You can stock more of them.

If you are selling them as feeder calves, then at weaning an Angus will weigh about 550-600#. A Dangus calf will weigh about 400-450#. The price for the smaller calves is higher per pound....

I'd hate to be the guy buying those 450# calves thinking they were something they weren't, planning on making some money by putting some weight on them, and then trying unsuccessfully to get them to reach that 1200# mark.

It seems almost borderline fraud to "fool" the buyers of my calves by planning to pass Dangus runts off as Angus calves.

I'd bet the guys sitting in the stockyards and looking at thousands of cattle each week have good enough eyes to know exactly what they are looking at when a bunch of Dangus calves show up (especially if they've gotten burned with some Dangus calves in the past). And, I'd be surprised if those 450# Dangus calves sell for the same price as 450# Angus calves.

But maybe that's just me.

Dusky Beauty · #8 12/14/12, 11:06 PM

"lowline" angus is in it's crowning glory as "back yard beef"--- selling one or two steers at a time to someone who wants to raise grass beef on a couple acres in a less intimidating size--- kind of a rip off on the farmer selling to the auction yard by the pound on the hoof.
Breeding for polled offspring is easy, and dexters (even the bulls as far as the testosterone goes) have a nice easy going nature. It's a good cross.

I so wish the genders of my calves were switched!! I have a 5 month angus/dexter heifer out of a dexter cow and a dexter/belmont bull calf with milk in his genes :/

genebo · #9 12/15/12, 01:47 PM

We got the same results when we tried to make an Irish Jersey heifer that was A2/A2. We bred an A2/A2 Jersey bull to an A2/A1 Dexter cow in the hopes ... We got an A2/A1 Jersey/Dexter bull instead. He's due back from the processor any day now.

The good part is that he inherited the Dexter body shape, so he'll yield pretty well. It should be some good beef.

Once, when I ran out of Dexter beef, I bought a side of Angus from my next door neighbor. Most of it never got eaten and we went without beef until I could get a Dexter in the freezer. If you haven't tried it, you should. Then you might see why my friend almost never has a Dangus calf to take to the market. They're all sold privately, ahead of time. His clients are loyal!

I just found out that he has leased more land and bought some, too. He has expanded his operation to 150 head. And it all started with a single bull that he served to a crowd at a barbecue!

Today, he's on the verge of making a deal with Arby's to buy his production. They are picky. They only buy grass fed and use ultrasound to select them. Most of their beef currently comes from New Zealand, but they're working to change that. It's hard to find good grass fed beef in this country. We're too solidly entrenched in the grain fed model.

Dusky Beauty · #10 12/15/12, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genebo

Today, he's on the verge of making a deal with Arby's to buy his production. They are picky. They only buy grass fed and use ultrasound to select them. Most of their beef currently comes from New Zealand, but they're working to change that. It's hard to find good grass fed beef in this country. We're too solidly entrenched in the grain fed model.

I didnt realize arby's used grass fed beef. Guess which fast food chain just increased in my esteem?

ramiller5675 · #11 12/15/12, 05:18 PM

I'd hate to jump through a bunch of hoops and change my herd genetics all around trying to satisfy an Arby's buyer so he would finally buy my beef on the promise that I might get some sort of premium for all my time and money.

When Arby's finds another source for their beef or decides that I shouldn't really get that premium anymore, what would I do with all the cattle that only Arby's would want to buy? If there is a market for my "special" Arby's cattle when the contract ends, then why would they need me to alter my herd to suit their specifications? Wouldn't they just tap into that already existing supply?

That kind of deal sounds suspiciously like the "great deals" that independent pork, egg, and chicken producers made in the past that turned them from independent producers into producers that are dependent on the people making those "great deals"

I'd rather not work for Arby's if I can help it.

cedarcreekranch · #12 12/15/12, 09:30 PM

If you're looking for a smaller, more efficient animal that produces great, saleable beef and calves, why not go Lowline Angus instead? You've got 100% Angus genetics, you can breed your Lowline cows (at least 2nd calfers) to commercial low birthweight bulls, and those smaller cows will wean calves comparable to those from a commercial cow EXCEPT you get TWO calves from what would normally feed one cow. That means more beef per acre, plus the smaller cows are easier on fences, facilities and people. ;-) You can get Lowline cows that weigh 900-1000# although most of mine average around 800# but they WILL wean a big calf, and breed back easily, all without losing condition on good grass. Plus you won't need to put a creep out for your calves if you have decent pasture, the calves will grow big and fat on grass and mama's milk. Plus all black, no horns, and no dwarfism. What's not to like? ;-)

haypoint · #13 12/15/12, 09:30 PM

Nearly every butcher in this country has been buying New Zeeland boxed bull beef for 50 years. McDonalds has too. No other source for lean cheap beef. hamburger is mostly ground trimmings. As such, it contains too much fat. Lean bull beef gets the fat percentage down to a desired amount.

genebo · #14 12/16/12, 09:25 AM

Arby's doesn't buy directly from the farmer. They buy from a processor just like everybody else does. Swift's supplies a lot of restaurants. The Tall Grass Cattle Company http://www.tallgrassbeef.com/ deals only in grass fed beef. They buy it, process and pack it, and deliver it to the end user. Arby's buys US beef from them.

Arby's has a team that will come to your farm and see if your cattle are good enough for their program. They bring ultra sound equipment and use it to gauge the quality of your beef. They walk your pastures and give advice. But they don't buy.

They showed up at my friends farm and approved his pasture practices. Good grass, good stocking rate. Yet they found his cattle still below their standards. The marbling was insufficient. They suggested changing bulls.

Two years later, he's passing the tests and he's increasing the size of his pastures and the number of head he runs. He considers himself successful. So do I.

Read the book "Steak" by Mark Schlotzky to get a good picture of where our beef comes from. Lots of the farmers around here have only a vague idea what happens to the cattle they sell at the livestock auction.

pancho · #15 12/16/12, 11:07 AM

I was under the impression that fast food places used very little actul beef in anything they served.