Horns

opportunity · #1 12/01/12, 04:35 PM

I can't seem to figure out if the calf will have horns or not I have gotten horns when both parents don't have them I have not gotten them when one parent has them and sometimes I do. the only thing I have for sure is that if both parents have them I will get them.
I have horns on a calf out of an angus bull and cow that didn't have horns just doens't seem right.

nosqrls · #2 12/01/12, 04:47 PM

It happens.

pancho · #3 12/01/12, 05:55 PM

Just because it is a black bull and a black cow doesn't mean it is an angus.

goodhors · #4 12/01/12, 06:45 PM

Shape of the head is usually the clue if calf is polled or going to get horns. On ours, the polled Hereford had an oval shaped head, narrow top, no flat area between the ears for horns to grow from. Her head was almost pointed up between the ears.

This showed the point of a polled cow head the best. She is about the third photo down, cow with calf.

Red Polls

The horned calves had a triangle shaped head, with a very flat space at the top for horns to grow from. Horn ridge gets more pronounced with age on the calf. These photos show that triangle shape with horns and also on dehorned cattle down about 4th photos. They all have the triangle shape head, even if horns were removed.

How to Identify Horned, Scurred and Polled Cattle: 6 steps

opportunity · #5 12/01/12, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pancho

Just because it is a black bull and a black cow doesn't mean it is an angus.

The bull is registered so he better be angus, I'm guessing it must come from the cows as they do have some mixed heratage, but they don't have horns and their calfs usually don't just sometimes.

KSALguy · #6 12/01/12, 10:16 PM

if the bull was registered then there is no way for horns to come from him, Registered pure angus are straight polled, no horn gene, when bred to anything that is passed on, and if bred to cow with horns the calf will be polled but be hetero for poll and if bred to another hetero polled animal they can produce horns or polls, but nether of them would be registered pure angus

dkhern · #7 12/01/12, 10:28 PM

horned or not whats the problem??

carellama · #8 12/02/12, 07:14 AM

I am having the same issue. I have a month old heifer calf with a horned mom and a polled dad. I have been watching and I feel no points but she is developing a bump at the top between her ears. If she is horned I want to use paste on her but feel nothing to know where to apply the paste.

Not meaning to hi jack but wanting the answer also.

pancho · #9 12/02/12, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opportunity

The bull is registered so he better be angus, I'm guessing it must come from the cows as they do have some mixed heratage, but they don't have horns and their calfs usually don't just sometimes.

Maybe the bull and the papers do not match.

lonelyfarmgirl · #10 12/02/12, 10:03 AM

Feel where the horns should be. If at a month old, her horn circles are still completely flat, then polled. My experience, even in the girls, when you feel them, its obvious. Male horns appear much faster.

myersfarm · #11 12/02/12, 10:42 AM

I have heard of REG. Angus with scurs ....... that might be what your feeling and not horns would be hard to tell at this age what they are ...

opportunity · #12 12/02/12, 11:16 AM

I ended up with two steers and a heifer that have horns they showed no sign of them at about a month old when I put them on summer pasture but they have about 7 inch long horns now and the sale yard here would like them removed before I sell. I can either remove them or keep them to eat. I just dont' know how they didn't show to start with and then they did. I keep some jersy and highlands so I'm ok with horns we usually eat the steers from them but I'm getting to many to sell in the fall as meat, and we bough the angus so we could sell at the ring and now we can't.

MO_cows · #13 12/02/12, 11:35 AM

Registered Angus bull should be homozygous for the polled gene, no horns in any of his calves. Maybe they are just scurs?

myersfarm · #14 12/02/12, 12:06 PM

I have horns on a calf out of an angus bull and cow that didn't have horns just doens't seem right.

iS THIS the calf with 7 inch horns or a new calf ?

is the calf with 7 inch horns out of the angus bull ?

opportunity · #15 12/02/12, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myersfarm

I have horns on a calf out of an angus bull and cow that didn't have horns just doens't seem right.

iS THIS the calf with 7 inch horns or a new calf ?

is the calf with 7 inch horns out of the angus bull ?

It is a group of calfs born in April they should all be out of the Angus bull that we purchased as he was the only one we had at that time (I butchered the highland bull and hadn't gotten a replacemnt so they all had to be from the angus). I purchased the bull from a reputable breeder all he does is registered angus bulls (the bulls mom was sired by mytt in focus and the dad was AI'd Final Answer) One of the cows is an 75%angus/25%jersey she doens't have horns but I believe she is a horn carrier. One of the cows is a commercial Angus with no horns. The other cow is red with bumps but no real horns.
I think the angus bull might not be as he was advertised.....

Wanda · #16 12/02/12, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opportunity

It is a group of calfs born in April they should all be out of the Angus bull that we purchased as he was the only one we had at that time (I butchered the highland bull and hadn't gotten a replacemnt so they all had to be from the angus). I purchased the bull from a reputable breeder all he does is registered angus bulls (the bulls mom was sired by mytt in focus and the dad was AI'd Final Answer) One of the cows is an 75%angus/25%jersey she doens't have horns but I believe she is a horn carrier. One of the cows is a commercial Angus with no horns. The other cow is red with bumps but no real horns.
I think the angus bull might not be as he was advertised.....

if he sold you a REGISTERED angus bull that throws horned calf's he should replace the bull. If you just got a generic black bull from him you have no recourse!

SpaceCadet12364 · #17 12/02/12, 05:48 PM

Got this off the cattle today forum......may be helpful info?

"The scur gene is inherited separately from the horn/polled gene - and can slide along undetected for generations until you start breeding the horns off. A homozygous polled animal can still have scurs - though most commonly, the presence of scurs *suggests* that the animal may be heterozygous polled.

Male calves only have to have one copy of the scur gene to express scur growth, heifers have to inherit two(one from each parent) in order to have scurs.

Expression is variable, from tiny little 'scab' scurs that you have to part the hair to see, to big honking things that look like full-grown horns - except that they are loosely attached to the skull, with no bony core.

Unless the sire of this calf has scurs, he's not the source. There have been (and probably still are) occasional registered Angus bulls with scurs."

And, of course, according to the angus association, you aren't supposed to register an animal that carries scurs. BUT....who actually polices that aspect of registration?

myersfarm · #18 12/02/12, 08:06 PM

Right but 7 inches is not a scur it's a horn so has to be something wrong with the bull

FEF · #19 12/03/12, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opportunity

I can't seem to figure out if the calf will have horns or
is that if both paren have them I will get them.
I have horns on a calfdoesn'tof an angus bull and cow that didn't have horns just doens't seem right.

An animal must have two genes for horns to be horned. Angus bulls do not carry the horn gene, so none of their calves should have horns. But if they're bred to a horned cow (carrying 2 horn genes), the calf will inherit half of its genetic makeup from the bull (no horn gene) and half from the cow (one horn gene). The calf should be polled, but since it carries one horn gene, if it is bred to an animal carrying at least one horn gene, it might produce a horned calf. You can't look at a cow and tell if she is carrying a gene for horns..

It's not right for you to get horned calves from a registered Angus bull. Scurs are different, but you shouldn't get those either.

I'd suggest you double check your dates to be very sure which bull gave you the horned calves. If it is the Angus bull, get in touch with the breeder and ask for another bull. There's something wrong in the paperwork on that bull.

If he's not willing to work with you, contact the Angus field man in your area. You can find his name and email address at the angus.org site.

The Angus Assn doesn't have any way to pull papers unless someone lets them know there's a problem.

opportunity · #20 12/03/12, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEF

An animal must have two genes for horns to be horned. Angus bulls do not carry the horn gene, so none of their calves should have horns. But if they're bred to a horned cow (carrying 2 horn genes), the calf will inherit half of its genetic makeup from the bull (no horn gene) and half from the cow (one horn gene). The calf should be polled, but since it carries one horn gene, if it is bred to an animal carrying at least one horn gene, it might produce a horned calf. You can't look at a cow and tell if she is carrying a gene for horns..

It's not right for you to get horned calves from a registered Angus bull. Scurs are different, but you shouldn't get those either.

I'd suggest you double check your dates to be very sure which bull gave you the horned calves. If it is the Angus bull, get in touch with the breeder and ask for another bull. There's something wrong in the paperwork on that bull.

If he's not willing to work with you, contact the Angus field man in your area. You can find his name and email address at the angus.org site.

The Angus Assn doesn't have any way to pull papers unless someone lets them know there's a problem.

I know have checked with some other people who use the same bull (we are a small community and we share a bull and large pasture during the summer) He was the only Bull their cows were exposed to and one of the guys had his red angus have a calf with little horns so it looks like our bull is bad or someone else put a bull in that pasture that noone knew about. Another lady had a calf with horns as well so it's not issolated to me... wish it was cheap to run genetic testing so we could see whats going on.