Jersey/Gelbvieh

[bigbluegrass]

Has anyone done this cross? I have a nice Jersey cow coming up on 6. In the past I have always bred her to a Jersey bull, heifers are great and sell easy. Bull calves take forever to get up to slaughter. I sold the bull last year. Played around with a Red Poll bull, which is fine. But he found a new home this past year also. Now I am AIing my cows.

So I did some research and came to the realization that Gelbvieh were originally a dual (or triple if you count draught) purpose breed. So it seems that with a Gelbvieh Jersey cross, the females would still be great milking cows. The male calves should be meat wagons - still probably finish a little later, but should have a lot of beef.

What do you all think?

[CIW]

The first thing that I see is that Gelbvieh calves can be a little bigger at birth. (70 and on up to 93 lbs.) Crossing them onto a little Jersey cow may be a recipe for disaster.
Have you thought about a low birth weight Angus. The calves are small (around 57 to 65 lbs.). Grow fast and usually compliment most breeds due to their close line breeding that goes on within the breed.

[arnie]

I agree with CIW jerseys may have trouble with the size of a gelbi calf the angus makes a nice cross .I also always take what I read from the breed assoiations or others promoting thete brand of livestock with a grain of salt .after all they are trying to make a sale like any salesman .talking with local beef cattle men i'v herd that they like useing gelbi bulls to get bigger longer calfs from their beef herd adding hybred vigger while keeping the black color as the beef buyers pay more for angus beef.the down side that seems common is the gelbis are harder to handle wilder natured .this is just what i'v learned from those old farmers .

[SpaceCadet12364]

Jersey 35 to 65 lbs BW
Gelbvieh 70 to 100 lbs BW
The bigger the calf the better the chance the cow will prolapse. The smaller the cow and bigger the bull the better the chance the cow will be hurt during breeding.

[bigbluegrass]

CIW - I hear what you are saying. She is bred to a low BW angus now. Angus of course can be over 100 lb birth weight as well. I am looking at a low BW Gelbvieh bull.

arnie - I am after hybrid vigor. I was going with a red gelbvieh. I was never a huge fan of the black ones. Most of the gelbviehs I have been around were very docile. I am surprised you said they have a reputation for being wild.

SpaceCadet - I will be doing the breeding by AI so there is not chance the cow will get hurt during breeding. The larger calf is a concern.

The calf should be around 60 to 70 lbs at birth - the bull I have picked out is a low birth weight Gelbvieh with proven numbers. The cow normally has small calves with no problem. Her last calf was born in 10 minutes and it was around 50 lbs. I realize there is some risk by crossing a cow from a smaller breed with a larger breed. She is bred to a low birth weight angus right now and that calf should be around 50 to 60 lbs at birth. I will see how she handles that. I am just thinking ahead to next year or maybe even a few years later.

The bigger question (or the question I am really asking) is - should I. Has anyone done it? I see a variety of reasons why I should and should not. I think all the previous responses have covered the fact that the calf will be larger at birth and that is a concern. Does anyone see any positives for this cross? I think, if it were a bull calf it would or should gain well. The females should still milk plenty for a family milk cow. I wouldn't mind a milk cow that is a little beefier and crossing that cow with an Angus would make a great beef cow and a very beefy steer. Thoughts?

[kycrawler]

we had gelbvieh show heifers for 2 years in a row that were wild as deer and stubborn as can be . They were the hardest heifers i have ever broke to lead . I am ai 'ing some jersey cows to a normande bull called indiscute i think that breed has alot of potential for what i want . Some of the amish here bred in red angus and herford to their jerseys , the herford jersey cross is a great family milker and i may get a few straws

[haypoint]

You are doing your own AI and are thinking of breeding to a Gelbvieh? You have at your disposal the finest Jersey bloodlines and you want to cross it instead?

Jersey steers are small and grow slower and there is a 50/50 chance you'll get a bull. But, there is also the same chance you'll get a heifer. Cross your Jeresy with a bull that throws a calf 5 pounds larger than she can deliver and you lose both the calf amd your beautiful Jeresy cow.

Let's cut to the basics. Breed her to a Jersey bull. If it is a heifer, you scored a home run! If it is a Jursey bull, knock him in the head and bury him. no wasted energy, time, effort or feed for that darn slow growing bull calf. Buy a holstein bull calf, castrate and raise him. He'll produce about the same amount of beef as a Jeresy Gelbvieh cross.

If you've never experienced a hip locked calf that has to be cut into chunks to get past the cows pelvis, take a look at the photo I posted on the other recent Jersey cross discussion.

In your quest for some dairy/beef cross meat, you might end up eating some 6 year old jersey cow hamburger.

Plus you are giving up half of your Jeresy's temperment. I wouldn't be sure you'd be able to milk this cross.

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by bigbluegrass

The bigger question (or the question I am really asking) is - should I. Has anyone done it? I see a variety of reasons why I should and should not. I think all the previous responses have covered the fact that the calf will be larger at birth and that is a concern. Does anyone see any positives for this cross? I think, if it were a bull calf it would or should gain well. The females should still milk plenty for a family milk cow. I wouldn't mind a milk cow that is a little beefier and crossing that cow with an Angus would make a great beef cow and a very beefy steer. Thoughts?

For years I've been promoting the beef/jersey cross as a family cow. Pure jerseys give more milk than most need, and have more issues with milk fever, etc. The beef/jersey cross gives plenty of milk, and makes a beefier calf when bred to a beef bull. I currently have a hereford/jersey heifer to calve in March I will milk. I was actually milking a beef cow recently, but sold her after her milk slowed down.

I don't like black, either, as it causes more heat stress. I've bred my heifer to a red angus bull from Pharocattle, which has smaller framed bulls. I really like that Johnny B Good fellow.

I know little about gelbvieh, but if you have good numbers on him, based on alot of calves, that shows calving ease, you should be fine. Jerseys, though smaller, have a reputation for easier calving, especially if not a heifer.

Generally speaking, the continental breeds such as Gelbvieh, Charolais, and Limousin, are known for greater growth and muscle, but not as good of carcass quality as the british breeds like red angus and hereford. So depends on what you want. If you want the offspring to be a milker, you might also select for udder quality. I like semen sources that rate their udders.

Originally Posted by kycrawler

we had gelbvieh show heifers for 2 years in a row that were wild as deer and stubborn as can be . They were the hardest heifers i have ever broke to lead . I am ai 'ing some jersey cows to a normande bull called indiscute i think that breed has alot of potential for what i want . Some of the amish here bred in red angus and herford to their jerseys , the herford jersey cross is a great family milker and i may get a few straws

I've become more cautious about generalizing with breeds. A breeder can fix or ruin any breed in just a few generations. So it all depends on what a breeder was focusing on, or not. In addition, often the ones for sale are the worst ones they're trying to get rid of.

[iloveafarmer]

Look into breeding to a Tarentaise. They generally are born small and grow quickly, and you can choose a heifer bull to throw small calves. They are a dual purpose breed, mostly used here to add hybrid vigor to beef cattle and improve udders so calves wean at a higher weight. In France, where they originated, they are dairy cows. We have a springer and a heifer and they are sweet tempered like a Jersey and very beefy. They are smaller than our Angus but bigger than our Jersey and are very adaptable to varying pastures and feeds.

[bigbluegrass]

Thanks for all the replies!

kycrawler - Normande sounds like an interesting cross. I read somewhere about that cross making a great milk cow. Probably more milk than I need on a grass based farm. I have also heard Hereford and Red Angus (also Black Angus) make a good beefy cross. I will be trying Red Angus and Black Angus on the first calf Jersey heifers. Hereford maybe after that. Gelbvieh I will try on the older cows who don't have any calving problems with any of the above.

haypoint - I have pulled around 20 calves in my life. I have seen hip lock up close. Seen a cesarean done. Seen cows break their pelvic bone delivering a calf. Some of the cows didn't make it. Guess what - most of them were Angus bred to Angus! It isn't always about the breed. Some Angus throw huge calves. Some Angus throw small calves. I won't argue with you about the benefits of Jersey cattle. I love mine. But crossbred cows have been proven to live longer and have more productive lives. Hybrid Vigor! I have no intention of "knocking" a newborn calf in the head and then buying another calf (BTW if I did it would not be a Holstein). Sounds like a waste of my time and money. Why not just take care of it up front with some proper planning? I have used a Jersey bull for the last 4 years. I know what a straight bred Jersey can do. What can a crossbred do?

DJ in WA - I think you understand what I am trying to do. I do have some Red Angus semen that I will be breeding the Jersey heifer to. I was looking at Johnny B from Pharo a few months ago. I really like him as well and wanted to get some, but shipping is rough on a small order. The one I have is the ABS bull Nebula. He is very good calving ease. Low milk also. Great ME. His EPD numbers match close with Pharo and he is from Beckton, which Pharo gets a lot of bulls from. Should be as close to a Pharo bull as I can get without getting one from Pharo. Not sure if that cross would make a milk cow, but it should make a great cow either way. The Gelbvieh bull is Top Brass. He is supposed to throw excellent udders and teats. He is one of the highest milking bulls in the breed, so there should still be plenty of milk. I have heard great things about his heifers. His only downside is his milk EPD is really high - which would fit right into making a new family milk cow!

iloveafarmer - I would love to do a Tarentaise cross, but my semen supplier does not carry them. It would be cost prohibitive to get it shipped in just for a couple of cows. I am trying to work with what my ABS rep has, since he will deliver it and he is the one who fills my tank.

As I see it, there are a few negatives. Possible calving problems has been brought up several times. That is not a deal breaker for me. Leaner, lower quality carcass is a concern. This particular bull does not have great marbling numbers. I am hoping the Jersey will prevail with marbling and the Gelbvieh will add pounds and rib eye area. Larger framed cow (higher food consumption) is also a concern.

On the positive side, the resulting milk cow would be much beefier. She should have more longevity. Lasting much longer than a straight Jersey. The resulting bull calves would have much higher growth rate. The calves from the crossbred cows should be very beefy calves (crossed back to Angus or Hereford to get a better carcass). I think it will make a more balanced cow - nothing against straight Jersey. Just too dairy for my needs.

[Tracy2manyhorse]

I just bought one!! She is a 2011 model, out of an old Jersey cow & by a "red" Gelbvieh bull. She was bred black Gelbvieh & is due within the next 6 weeks! She is SHORT like my younger Jersey (about 49" tall at the shoulder) but has a much heavier hip & massive shoulders! Oh and what a set of horns!!

[CJBegins]

There are a couple of those girls for sale near here. They however aren't near as beefy as the gal pictured above. I would have guess them to be just a different shaped jersey but nice looking cows.

I milk a hereford/shorthorn cross. She produces a very nice calf and does fair in the milk department. Her milk is very creamy. I don't need tons of milk but she at 9 months into this lactation is going strong at 2+ gallons OAD milking. She holds her weight very well.

[Gabriel]

Why not use sexed semen from a Jersey? I do like a milk/beef cross as long as the udder turns out well, but only if you're planning to keep it. Not sure how well they'd sell.

[bigbluegrass]

Originally Posted by Tracy2manyhorse

I just bought one!! She is a 2011 model, out of an old Jersey cow & by a "red" Gelbvieh bull. She was bred black Gelbvieh & is due within the next 6 weeks! She is SHORT like my younger Jersey (about 49" tall at the shoulder) but has a much heavier hip & massive shoulders! Oh and what a set of horns!!

That is one beefy looking girl! Thanks for sharing the picture.

[bigbluegrass]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Why not use sexed semen from a Jersey? I do like a milk/beef cross as long as the udder turns out well, but only if you're planning to keep it. Not sure how well they'd sell.

Sexed semen always costs a bit more and has lower conception results. There are fewer viable swimmers. I have had straight bred Jersey's for 6 years now. I don't have anything against the breed, but all the research I have read says a crossbred animal will outperform a purebred animal, all else equal. I do realize going with a beef cross will result in less milk overall. However, I think the added beef and hardier animal is more important to a homesteader than maximizing milk production. You get the extra hybrid vigor with a crossbred animal. The extra production (beef and milk) and longer life has been proven many times over and again in university and other studies.

This is the bull I will use. I have the semen in the tank and I do plan to cross my Jersey to him this year. I will post back with the results.

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/gel...Touro=29GV0078

[opportunity]

I have used highland on my jersey produced a nice calf, the heifers have been good milkers and the steers made good eatting.