Best dairy cow/meat combo

[Himesan]

I just received word my homeowners assoc saw the light and is allowing cattle for non-commercial purposes. I am new to cows and I know it will be a steep learning curve, but what I do have is that I get to start from scratch. I have 5 acres in case that is a factor.

There was some good info on dairy/meat cow choices in the "Comparative Rating of Cattle Breeds (1974)" thread, but I would appreciate a more pointed suggestion. What would be a great choice for a milking breed where the calves can be raised economically (descent conversion) for the table. This can include one breed for dairy that crosses with another for good results. Any scenario that provides great milk, and great beef in the freezer, without the really slow growth rate I hear as a complaint of straight Jersey's.

Thanks so much in advance!

Jamie

[genebo]

Dexter.

Serves both purposes for a family and has some of the very best beef.

Small fat globules in the milk makes it more easily digested.

One should provide enough milk for a small family while raising a beef calf, but if you need more milk, get two.

Think about fencing and establishing pasture first. You will need a shelter adequate to milk in in bad weather. Make sure your HA will permit this.

[francismilker]

If you're only needing milk for one family and raising a calf, I'd get a beef breed that's slightly dairy influenced. Unless you're the Duggers, most familys don't need near as much milk as a cow can produce a day. There are lots of crossbreds to be found. Lots of dairyman I've known have used a beef bull to cover their dairy cows and the offspring is great for a family cow. I even like the idea of having a 3/4 beef, 1/4 dairy.

It always depends though on the specific cow you're dealing with. They're not all created equal. Some will give 100lbs per day while some from the same breed will give 20lbs per day. It just depends on the cow and a few other factors.

[cathleenc]

go small!

and plan ahead for what you'll do with the waste bedding/manure - a 800 lb cow produces something like 80 lbs of manure/waste bedding per day. You did not tell us where you live (great thing to add to your user profile!) but this becomes an issue for handling/moving/avoiding too many flies and smell in hot, wet, and cold conditions.

Also plan as to where you'll store hay and straw for bedding and how you'll haul it home. Buying hay can be a lot of work and expense and still end up with garbage if you don't know what to look for.

We had one cow - our family milker - till we had to move off farm. I dream about getting a cow again! So you may absolutely love having one. But they are big all around - big eaters, big backend producers - and planning for those elements of cow ownership is important.

[lakeportfarms]

I'll second Genebo...Dexter. Smaller size and easily managed, two would fit on your 5 acres so you can stagger their calving and have milk without the drying off period.

I'd suggest sticking to higher quality registered stock, that will be easier to find a market for any heifers you may wish to sell and at a higher price than a crossbred animal would be worth. Spread out along a 12-20 year lifespan, it can add up to well more than the initial price difference, even factoring in the present value of money.

[topside1]

Genebo, don't you have a website that you can post...Your website? Post if you can. Thanks, Topside.

[G. Seddon]

Another vote for a couple of Dexters! Where do you live? Does the 5 acres include your home as well?

Get your facilities ready before you get any animals: fencing; a shelter; covered hay storage; access to clean, fresh water. Being brand new to cattle, you might want to do a little reading first (Heather Smith Thomas's books on basic care are good). Consult with your county extension agent for sources of hay, fencing, etc. Identify and contact a large animal vet before you need one.

Start out slowly, perhaps a pair of weanling steers (cattle are herd animals and will do much better with a like companion) to see if this plan agrees with you; steers will require the least management and are much easier to sell or get rid of if you decide this isn't for you.

Whatever breed you choose, visit as many farms as you can for you will learn something from every visit -- what you like, what you don't like, etc. -- and ask questions!

[wvdexters]

I like Dexters and I think they would be a good fit for you too. They are small and easy to handle. Not as intimidating as some of the larger breeds. They don't require a lot of extra feed. My girls do great on pasture/hay. They are great for small farmettes.

[Himesan]

Thanks for all your help! I will be researching Dexters!

I live in Shingle Springs California. It is about halfway between Sacramento, and Lake Tahoe.

Yes, I am a big planner and researcher...that is half the fun! I have layer chickens, and I will have meat chickens as well. I also have a big garden so I will try to plan for efficiency of movement and utilizing waste for compost. I would lean towards feed efficiency over milk production as we are a small family, but I would like quality milk with high butterfat content and as I said before...good meat conversion.

...and yes the 5 acres includes my home and actual pasture is in the 3.5 acre realm.

I am asking for a lot right!

Jamie

[oregon woodsmok]

The Holstein Angus cross calves do well when raised for meat, but a Holstein produces too much milk for most families. If you can use that much milk, that will be one of your best meat options for a calf.

Myself, I'd get a Jersey because I love that extra rich milk. Breed her AI to a top purebred Jersey bull. Get good money for a heifer calf and sell any bull calf for a couple of dollars and let someone else worry about it. Then purchase an orphaned beef calf or a black colored Holstein X Angus calf and raise that on the excess milk.

You could feed a couple of pigs as well as a calf on the excess milk you get from a Jersey unless you have a huge milk swilling family.

Be really sure you want to be tied down to a rigid schedule of milking twice a day. You can't milk at your own convenience. You must be at the milking barn on time, day in and day out.

[DaleK]

Holstein bred Black Angus if you can use the milk, Ayrshire bred to a smaller beef breed would be a good second choice. Pretty well any dairy-beef cross will give enough milk for most families and give decent beef, I've milked purebred Holstein, Ayrshire, Jersey, and Brown Swiss cows along with HolsteinXAyrshire, JerseyXHolsteinXAyrshire, JerseyXHolstein, Brown SwissXHolstein and even a Black AngusXHolstein and a CharolaisXHolstein. Dexters are fine if you want to pay more for the name but for less money you can buy more cow from a more wide-spread breed in most areas. Simmental would be a pretty good choise too.

[cathleenc]

Jamie, we had our whole property fenced in - and 'mowing/fertilizing' the lawn was part of our cow's pasture rotation. We rarely had to mow, which was good, on the other hand the cow's fertilization pattern was 'spotty'. The downside of using our cow to mow the lawn was that she also ate the perennial flower garden and would moo in the kitchen windows when she wanted us to come out and be social with her.

I searched and searched for a dexter from milking lines within reasonable distance from where we lived at a reasonable price. In the end, we bought a wonderful jersey/guernsey who stood 42" at the hip from an organic small dairy. She was being let go because she was too small for the equipment. Her butterfat production was sky high! and the price for our 2.5 yr old cow was 1/2 that of the closest dairy-line dexter, age 12, that I could find. If I ever get the chance to do it again I might hold out for a dexter to get even a smaller size and less milk with more beef.

My suggestion is to be open to 'surprise' crosses and cows that meet your criteria. The top criteria for a family cow, imo, is temperment and health. Get an animal with a known health record, no mastitis or 3-quartered cows (why buy a problem when you can be picky?).

have a ton of fun!

edited to add: we're getting 1/2 of our cow's 2011 calf/steer back from the butcher in 2 weeks. Bred her to a jersey, making the calf about 85% jersey and 15% guernsey. The steer's hanging weight on grass/hay only was 480 lbs. While I've never tasted Dexter meat I do think jersey is the absolute tastiest to be found - angus is kinda awful after eating jersey. All of our tastes differ - so getting some meat from the breeds you are looking at would be a good piece of investigative work you might want to do as well. (make sure if you are grain finishing you get grain finished meat, same with grassfed).

[Sparkie]

Another vote for Dexter, especially on a small amount of pasture like you have. Their milk and meat are very good just on pasture and a little alfalfa if milking.

[genebo]

My website is:

Index » Page 1 of 2

Maybe one day I'll update it.

[ArmyDoc]

with only 3.5 acres, you should also consider goats.

[gracie88]

Be really sure you want to be tied down to a rigid schedule of milking twice a day. You can't milk at your own convenience. You must be at the milking barn on time, day in and day out.

Another reason for a Dexter - I left my cow's calf on, milked once a day and got 3/4 gallon and if I had to be gone, would just not separate them for the day. I did have to build her a milking stand, hard to get under a cow that short. Also, my first cow (bony old dairy-looking thing) was bred to an Angus x Hereford bull and made the nicest, beefiest calf ever. OTOH, both my girls have been yellers, if they don't get the attention they want, when they want it, they get really loud. That's probably not ideal for someone with an HOA. Another problem with Dexters is that it can be hard to find one raised to be a milk cow. My first choice would be small Jersey or Dexter, or maybe a dairy/beef cross, but any cow can be bred to a beef bull for a beefy calf, best to keep your options open.

[Dusky Beauty]

Another dexter owner here-- my girl is actually a "belmont" dexter; or "irish jersey". She's got a little jersey in her line to improve her milk production and butterfat. Dexters breed well either way-- beefier or milkier. She's got a great temperment, and even keeps her pen pretty clean.

[arnie]

My cow is a brown swiss I cross her with a beef bull and get a great calf to send to the butcher plus all the milk I. Can use .she makes plenty of milk and the calf grows big and beefy at 10 months old around 800 pounds and 400 pounds of tender gormeit baby beef .. she is my calm partner the bigest contributer to the homestead .a jersy or dexter would not fit here with so many big bulls in the area I would have to be very careful of such a small cow getting crosed with one of them no problem with takeing advantage of a free bull with her .she needs no special feeds doing fine on the pasture and mixed hay even though I grain her as I'm milking to keep her coming in to the calf on time and as she is my big pet and friend so I enjoy spoiling her a little though she's not a. Giant she is big enough to hold her own with the stock cows whereas a jersey or dexter would get pushed around or bullyed and require seprait pasture

[CIW]

A general rule with cattle is that exceptionally large cattle or exceptionally small cattle loose efficiency vs. input. The best bang for your buck tends toward meduim framed animals. Even within a given breed.
Have you thought about a brown swiss cow?
They generally have a really low keyed temperment. Convert better when it comes to marginal or less than premium quality feeds. Have less problems when calving due to their selective breeding throughout history. They are touted to be one of the older breeds still around today. Some say the oldest. And it isn't unusual for an individual to still be productive at age 18 years. They are also known for consistantly having a high quality teat and bag. They're meat quality will compare to pure english cross bred steers when hanging on the hook and on the plate.
No need to cross for better meat production because they are already a dual purpose breed. But do even better when crossed with the beef breeds. High notability for being the cheese makers breed, due to the right level and kind of butterfat in they're milk.
At the high, on premium feed, they will produce about 9 gallon, or a little more, a day. But without high powered feed, will be steady at 4 or 5 gallon a day.
This would make it able for you to raise her calf and later a couple of milk fed pigs or a second calf and thats after you have plenty of house milk. Doing so will offset the overheads on the cow to almost zero $'s.
A few Brown Swiss are often brought into a herd of Holstiens to bring the butterfat content of the tank up, giving the dairymen a better price for the milk sold and it is still feasible to keep them in the milk string because they have a good level of production.
Another animal that has often been overlooked is the milking shorthorn. They are also a dual purpose breed, with similar characteristics as the Brown Swiss but will produce about 15% less and be a little smaller size.
As a child I remember a Brown Swiss (Dutchess) that my brother raised and kept, that started as part of his FFA project. She kept us in milk and cheese (family of 7). Fed a calf, and 2 pigs through most of her lactation calender. And she did this every year, for alot of years.
Something has been mentioned about having multiple animals on a small acreage. That in itself is a recipe for inefficiency. Homesteading is the apitimy, or definition, of getting the most out of the least input. Why would you add another mouth to feed and increase your input margins without a definent return? That doesn't make fiscal sense.

[genebo]

The general rule you are stating doesn't hold water. Size is not the determining factor in feed conversion efficiency. Plus you have to consider what kind of feed you're taling about.

Today's huge Angus cattle are probably the most efficent way to convert cprn into beef, but the little Dexter cow is probably the most efficient way to convert grass and rough forage into meat and milk.

Smaller cattle are so much less demanding of the land, too. Olde Towne Farm has been keeping a sizeable herd of Dexters on their land for years, yet when you go visit them, you'll be surprized to see that the farm looks more like a grass farm than a cattle farm. The cattle don't hurt the land at all.

Drive by the average dairy farm and see the cattle trails, with wind and water erosion marking them. Those cattle congregate where their favorite food grows, while Dexters are ranging widely to find more good things to eat.

How much milk do you think you'd get from a big dairy breed eating blackberry bushes, sweet gum, cedar, honeysuckle, crabgrass and everything else that grows wild in your pasture?

Alfalfa? We don't need no steenking alfalfa!