thinking about selling cattle,

ugabulldog · #1 08/25/12, 02:24 PM

I have about 10 acres of good established fescue pasture with a pond for water. I know auction prices vary, but I am wondering about how much I could make per year either 1) buying bulls from local dairy for cheap (have raised one steer this way in the past) selling at auction after they get bigger. 2) Buy a couple of angus cows and AI or have one bull, sell the bulls, keep the heifers to have more calves. I know there will be more expense with option 2 as I am keeping cows year round but I will get more per lb for angus vs dairy at auction. Again, just looking for ballpark numbers... thanks.

G. Seddon · #2 08/25/12, 02:39 PM

Your question is similar to the one in this recent thread:

Which cattle raising model is more profitable?

ugabulldog · #3 08/25/12, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Seddon

Your question is similar to the one in this recent thread:

Which cattle raising model is more profitable?

Yes, i actually saw that thread but I am asking how much might be made in my situation, thanks.

PaulNKS · #4 08/25/12, 11:41 PM

You are more susceptible to losses with just calves. Dairy calves sold at 600 to 700 pounds will not bring as much as a beef calf. Also, your profit margin will be lower than with cows/calves, if you have your own pasture and hay.

The key to a successful profitable calf venture is in the numbers. Buying calves you will have higher vet bills (meds, etc), higher mortality rates, etc. So, the key is in the numbers. If you can buy, raise, do your own medicating, you can do okay. But, in my opinion, the cow/calf will have a higher profit margin, lower mortality, and less in vet bills.

If you've only raised one bottle calf, I would not recommend going into it as a revenue producing venture, but only if you have experience with orphaned and/or culled calves.

I'm not sure right now what dairy calves are bringing, but a beef calf should bring at least $125/cwt or close to it. Some are a lot higher. That's at 550 to 750 pounds. The cows will cost more, but the calves will bring more and with all other inputs, you will make a lot more profit with the cows. But, it won't pencil out to buy a bull for just 2 or 3 cows.

Soupmaker · #5 08/26/12, 05:31 PM

You'd do better with dairy calves. Beef calves will bring more but not that much more and you could turn many more bottle calves on that small peice of ground. Also just because they bring more doesn't mean there is more margin.

PaulNKS · #6 08/27/12, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soupmaker

You'd do better with dairy calves. Beef calves will bring more but not that much more and you could turn many more bottle calves on that small peice of ground. Also just because they bring more doesn't mean there is more margin.

He said that he would be selling through the auction. Unless it is a special dairy auction, the beef calves will almost always bring a lot more than a dairy calf at a good weaning weight. With beef calves you definitely can have a much higher margin than dairy calves. It costs a lot more to raise a dairy calf when you're buying milk replacers, and other meds. When a beef calf is left on the cow and there is pasture/hay, the expenses are a fraction of what they are with raising bottle dairy calves.

Soupmaker · #7 08/27/12, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

He said that he would be selling through the auction. Unless it is a special dairy auction, the beef calves will almost always bring a lot more than a dairy calf at a good weaning weight. With beef calves you definitely can have a much higher margin than dairy calves. It costs a lot more to raise a dairy calf when you're buying milk replacers, and other meds. When a beef calf is left on the cow and there is pasture/hay, the expenses are a fraction of what they are with raising bottle dairy calves.

Bull. (pun intended LOL) It cost alot to feed a cow for a year. Look at what hay costs this year. It makes milk replacer look cheap. Margin can be hoigher with beef calves but it often is not. The cost of a bag of milk replacer won't even buy a big bale of hay.

They sell dairy steers at every feeder cattle auction. Just because a beef is worth more DOES NOT mean it has more margin. Especially when you take into account you can only sell one beef per yaer. How many baby calves could you raise in that one cow calf pairs place? 3,4,5.........

Allen W · #8 08/27/12, 12:07 PM

There is more expense in raising a bottle calf then just a sack of milk replacer.

Soupmaker · #9 09/09/12, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen W

There is more expense in raising a bottle calf then just a sack of milk replacer.

No kiddin? There is a lot of expense in keeping a cow for a year too.

GREEN_ALIEN · #10 09/10/12, 12:20 AM

When feed was low it cost me 300 dollars a year to keep 1 bred cow. When feed is high (now) that goes to 500 dollars. From that I get 1 500 to 600 pound calf in the fall. If feed was low then supply is usually high, thus crappy prices in the ring... say 600 avg. If feed was high then supply is usually low, thus great prices in the ring... say 750 avg.

So, good year maybe 300$ profit. Bad year maybe 200-250$ profit. Spread that out over my 30 cows and then minus the costs of two bulls, meds, fencing etc and thats what I made... on 750 acres.

Edit - Black hides pay the best... hate it, but thats the way it is.

wildcat6 · #11 09/10/12, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soupmaker

You'd do better with dairy calves. Beef calves will bring more but not that much more and you could turn many more bottle calves on that small peice of ground. Also just because they bring more doesn't mean there is more margin.

I dunno, they just about give dairy cows away around here but the beef cattle bring top price.

Soupmaker · #12 09/10/12, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcat6

I dunno, they just about give dairy cows away around here but the beef cattle bring top price.

Really?

Where is here? I will be right there with my trailer.

PaulNKS · #13 09/11/12, 09:45 AM

Most areas of the country (unlike a heavy dairy state like Wisconsin), dairy never brings anywhere close to what beef cattle bring.

When you have land and cattle, cows do not cost much to keep and certainly cost less than raising a dairy calf.

PaulNKS · #14 09/11/12, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soupmaker

Really?

Where is here? I will be right there with my trailer.

Northeast Kansas. Let me know when and we'll arrange all the dairy calves you can haul.

hiddensprings · #15 09/11/12, 10:23 AM

I think this all comes down to how many cattle you can raise on 10 acres in your location. I would not think on 10 acres you are producting your own hay so you have to consider how you're going to feed the cows when the pasture is either dried up or snowed over. And raising the bottle calves would depend on what cost you have to feed them, how long you plan to keep them, and then as with beef cows, how you are going to feed them when the pasture isn't that great.
We've done a kind of hybird/diversity type of cattle operation. I have both dairy and beef. My two dairy cows feed their calves and many more bottle calves through out the year that I get from a local dairy which I then sell. The beef cows' steer calves are sold on shares to folks who want beef plus they keep us with beef in our freezer.
Another think to consider if you go for the beef cows is how you are going to handle them. You're talking big animals that don't come willingly to get shots, be AI'd, or even go onto a trailer.

DJ in WA · #16 09/12/12, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiddensprings

I think this all comes down to how many cattle you can raise on 10 acres in your location. I would not think on 10 acres you are producting your own hay so you have to consider how you're going to feed the cows when the pasture is either dried up or snowed over. And raising the bottle calves would depend on what cost you have to feed them, how long you plan to keep them, and then as with beef cows, how you are going to feed them when the pasture isn't that great.
We've done a kind of hybird/diversity type of cattle operation. I have both dairy and beef. My two dairy cows feed their calves and many more bottle calves through out the year that I get from a local dairy which I then sell. The beef cows' steer calves are sold on shares to folks who want beef plus they keep us with beef in our freezer.
Another think to consider if you go for the beef cows is how you are going to handle them. You're talking big animals that don't come willingly to get shots, be AI'd, or even go onto a trailer.

Actually, there is no reason a beef cow can't be handled like a dairy cow, assuming you get some with good disposition and you handle and give them treats. Not many beef cows are bigger than holsteins.

I am currently milking a beef cow who is halter trained and will jump on a trailer. In fact, when she needed to head to the vet when calving at 15 months, and calf feet sticking out her rear end, I led her to the trailer and she jumped right in. And she jumped back in at the vet after a hard pull and her rear end was wobbly. I just tied her in the corner of the shed to be AI'd.

I also have her steer calf halter trained and lead him around to graze the lawn. I grab him by the ears and hold him still and he won't move.

Soupmaker · #17 09/13/12, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

Most areas of the country (unlike a heavy dairy state like Wisconsin), dairy never brings anywhere close to what beef cattle bring.

Your statement here makes no sense.

So here where we have a flood of baby bull calves they are worth less then somewhere where there are less of them?

Miss Kay · #18 09/16/12, 12:14 PM

Milk replacer is expensive and not nearly as good for them as real milk. I suggest getting a dairy cow to supply the milk to feed your bottle calves. their feed will cost less and they will be healthier. If you get a breed of dairy that does well on grass (I prefer Guernsey) then you don't have to buy a lot of feed for her. Have your dairy cow calve in spring, buy several bottle calves to raise until the following spring and then start it all over. Prices are highest as the spring grass begins to grow and lowest right before winter when folks start to sell off. With only your dairy cow/cows and the young bottle calves you would get the best use of your pasture and sell them as near yearlings when others need steers to put on their pasture. If you want, you could even AI her to an angus to have a cross beefer to sell or put in the freezer.

PaulNKS · #19 09/16/12, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soupmaker

Your statement here makes no sense.

So here where we have a flood of baby bull calves they are worth less then somewhere where there are less of them?

Yes, exactly. In most areas of the country, the cattle are primarily beef. Cattlemen do not buy dairy calves for a number of reasons. They do not get the performance needed to be profitable that they get from the standard beef breeds. So, you can buy dairy calves, when they show up at a sale barn, for a lot less money than you can buy beef calves. Beef producers avoid dairy cattle.

downsized · #20 09/18/12, 11:55 PM

I talked to my local butcher about Jersey steers (they sell weaned for about $20). He's butchered Jersey's and said that he didn't like the way the meat looked. He also said that he can only butcher a cow up to a certain age (I'm guessing it was 24 months? It has something to do with BSE). What ever the age was, a Jersey will need just about all of that time to put on enough muscle mass and you needed to really grain them to get a fat layer to make it a decent cow to butcher. With beef breeds, you can butcher them almost 6 months earlier and get better results with more dressed out pounds.

Maybe you could go to your local butcher and talk to him about the difference between the breeds that you're thinking about.