Small, Young, Already Calved...

Jessilee7 · #1 08/04/12, 09:45 PM

The little star of my post "Horrible Night" - who I have since been calling "Charl-ett" since she's such a small Charlais (possibly crossed) heifer. She is between 13-15months old and just had a horrible experience with her first time calving. Calf didn't make it, she is doing great. She is only around 650-700lbs. Good build though.
I am GUESSING that some if not most of the reason she is so small still (which really, for her age, is she THAT small? I just keep comparing her to cows that should be ready to be calving.) is due to pregnancy at such an early age. She grew the calf instead of herself. If this is the case, will she still grow or is she stunted permenantly?

The reason I ask - neighbor's wife called today to say thank you again and tell me that her husband had told her he felt like we should have the cow since if it weren't for us, she would be dead. He has a pasture full of nice angus cows and honestly, this girl and her two sisters don't really fit in - I'm guessing they are pregnant too.

I don't want to accept this cow unless we keep her for at least long enough to rebreed her (I'm thinking no sooner than 6-8weeks), he calve, and raise the calf to weaning.

What are your thoughts? On growth, on the probability of her having issues next year, etc. Hate to turn down a free (well, other than pulling her calf and we'll probably have to do it with the other 2 he has) cow but it seems wrong if we accept her and then quickly sell her.

SpaceCadet12364 · #2 08/04/12, 10:20 PM

If you do take her, I may have missed it somewhere, but do you have cattle of your own or would you be AI'ing her?

She may still grow out some, give her a bit of time and some good feeding before you have her bred. I would also suggest that you AI her with the lowest birthweight calving bull you can find....maybe a Scottish Highland or maybe Dexter? Im sure there are others, but those come to mind first. You could have the vet check her out to see if the stuck calf was just one of those "stuff happens" occasions.

The early pregnancy did not help her though, and it more than likely did impact her growth potential somewhat.

CJBegins · #3 08/04/12, 10:23 PM

She may not grow to her full potential but I certainly wouldn't rebreed her yet. She should just now at around the age of 15 months be bred for the 1st time. Plenty of cows do well not making it to their full growth and continue to produce healthy calves and milk. If I were in this situation I would accept the offer, ask if she can be bred to their LBW angus bull in a couple of months and watch her grow up.

BTW I would encourage the neighbor to invest in calf pulling equipment and to pen those other two heifers up and monitor them so they can be assisted with their births in a timely manor and maybe their babies will survive. Cudos to you for being a good neighbor!

opportunity · #4 08/04/12, 11:23 PM

I have had problems with some cows the next year and no problems with others time will twll but I have always found it worth trying. Although I tied for 79 days to save a cow was paralized when her calf was pulled I alway try.

G. Seddon · #5 08/05/12, 06:34 AM

If she were mine, I'd give her some time off, let her grow and mature a bit, and be in no hurry to rebreed her.

ramiller5675 · #6 08/05/12, 02:14 PM

Is she that much smaller than the other two heifers?

Since she isn't nursing a calf right now, she should start putting on some weight and should catch up to the other two.

I'd probably wait and breed her to calve in the fall.

The fact that she got bred at such a young age means that she has the genetics to be a good fertile cow that should be fertile for the rest of her productive life, so I'd take a chance on her, especially if she was more or less free.

francismilker · #7 08/05/12, 04:23 PM

Just my two cents here........

If she's 15 months old, I'd rebreed her now. Sometimes when a cow goes through a tough calving they don't rebreed very quick. BUT, if she's going to be a problem rebreeding you need to know now before you invest too much time and money into a pet. (Unless you bought her as a pet) If she's got a future in raising you calves for sale or the freezer you might as well get her started towards it. Lots of would be cattle owners have failed miserably by trying to "hand raise" a pet into a production cow. Once again, if you're in it for a pet, by all means, grow her out for a while. IMHO.

Jessilee7 · #8 08/06/12, 12:17 AM

Spacecadet- We do have cattle of our own although currently no bull. We are still trying to decide if we want to buy a bull this fall or just AI. If we buy a bull it will be a beef breed which means either continuing to AI my jerseys or having cross babies which isn't all bad, but I can sell heifer calves for quite a bit when they're full blood jersey. We may end up AIing everyone this year or getting a bull and having a year of cross babies next year out of the jerseys... who knows.
CJ- We went over on horseback today and rounded up her two sisters. They are very close to calving. These girls MILK... Even little Char-lette was really uddered up. They are now in a corral with an alley and head gate just in case.
Opportunity- You sound a little like me... I have never been known to give up on an animal until it has made it clear it has given up. Tried nursing a cow with paralysis back once myself for a little over 2 months. She finally made it clear she was done. We put her down. I was much younger and more optomistic then though, but I still try.
Ramiller- No, she's the same size as them, actually, she is right inbetween them on sizer. They are all within weeks of being the same age though. All out of related cows and the same bull. I think that may be what we have to do on breeding her... if bred now, she would calve in May and here, it can already be in the 100s by then. If I wait until January, that gives her a little time to recover, maybe grow, and she will calve in September when it's starting to cool off. I like your way of looking at her breeding so young. Hadn't thought of it like that. Maybe she'll be a great cow for us. The calf she produced, even though it was dead by the time I got it out... was a VERY nice calf. I know she has potential to give us some good ones, but don't want to have to watch her like a hawk and be ready to pull a calf every year.
Francismilker-
We are not wanting a "pet"... I have my jersery girls who are productive, yet I consider them my pests... I mean pets...

I also don't want to accept this "thank you gift" if we are not going to keep her for a while (like I stated, at least long enough to breed, birth and raise a new calf) to see how she does next time. If she does good next go round, I likely will keep her for quite a while but if not, at least it won't look like I accepted her just to sell her and make a profit.
I was really wanting to rebreed her on her second heat cycle and go from there but after considering the timing... I hate to do that. Our weather here is just too hot for summer calving. Spring and fall calving only if I can help it which would mean waiting until around January.
Thank you all for your replies. We will accept her and see how she does. Now just need to decide if we'll have a bull or AI... any words of unknown wisdom there?

ramiller5675 · #9 08/06/12, 06:34 AM

Are you absolutely sure that they are only 15 months old? What are the odds that all three were bred at such a young age?

I would be wondering if they were some sort of weird cross of miniature cattle, Corriente, or something else.

If I was set up for AI and had done it before on my other cattle, I sure wouldn't buy a bull for three cows that I had questions about.

PaulNKS · #10 08/06/12, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramiller5675

Are you absolutely sure that they are only 15 months old? What are the odds that all three were bred at such a young age?

I would be wondering if they were some sort of weird cross of miniature cattle, Corriente, or something else.

If I was set up for AI and had done it before on my other cattle, I sure wouldn't buy a bull for three cows that I had questions about.

It may seem odd, but if there is a bull with them...... At 6 months they would be a bit young for their first heat cycle.

arnie · #11 08/10/12, 01:43 PM

She will more than likly breed and raise a calf without any problems try to avoid a charlais bull or hosteen due to there tendency to make big boned calfs .go with a black angus bull .those smaller cows probaly will grow out a good calf and be more profitable in the long run as they won't eat as much as a huge hay burnner .most of the cost involved eating the profits up from raiseing cattle is in that first 2 years befor a cow gets a calf to market. This being done for you already you can't go wrong.

Ronney · #12 08/11/12, 06:49 AM

I think that you will find she will go on to make you a very good cow.

Unfortunately this situation arises frequently by accident or bad management but if the cow comes through it, she usually does ok.

If it helps, I have a Belgian Blue/Jersey cow that is now 12. The vet had to remove her first calf bit by bloody bit. She was 14 months old and I wasn't even running a bull - but a neighbour had been and I later found out he had retrieved his bull from my heifers without saying a word to me. Anyway, I left her for another 6 months before putting her back to an Angus bull. During that time she filled out and grew to a size that I would expect from that cross breed. She produced a beautiful bull calf without any assistance and has continued to calve blocky little calves ever since.

If your Char-lette were mine, I would leave her now until a time when calving (climate wise) is going to be good for you and then put her to a small birthweight breed such as an Angus, or even a Jersey, as has been suggested.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Madsaw · #13 08/11/12, 11:20 AM

+1 to what Ronney said
We also had a begian/holstein get breed young. She calfed fine at 14-15 months. But by the time she was 5 she weighted close to a ton. Seemed like she never stopped growing.
We have had a few small holstein heifers over the yrs too. The do grow up and out in time.
Bob

Jessilee7 · #14 08/11/12, 11:58 AM

Thank you arnie, ronney and madsaw. You all have made good points and I am glad to hear others experience with such similar situations. Gives me lots of hope for her. We brought her home and she's doing quite well. We plan to wait and rebreed her around January. That way she'll have a little time to recoop but mostly, so her next calf will be in nice weather.
One of her sisters calved Thursday night. We had to pull the calf again but this time got hold of it much quicker since we had facilities available and I was determined to get it out fast. This time, both mom and baby are doing great.