Sale barn lesson. Now what?

nchobbyfarm · #1 08/02/12, 09:59 PM

I went to the sale today to pick up a couple of steers for next years freezer meat. I bought two nice little calves. The first is a black 338 pounder. He has a long body and flat back. Just a great looking calf.

The second looks just like a Hereford (white face with a red body) but his hair is really slick and short. The hair does not have any curls except a few right on his forehead but only just a little. Anyway, he only weighs 208.

They were announced as steers and the paperwork lists both as steers. But when I get them home and in the corral, I notice the little red one still has all his natural hardware. I bought steers because I am a newbie and did not want to deal with turning bulls to steers yet. But I read the sign right over the auctioneer that states "No guarantees, look closely." Guess I will sit closer next time.

Can a bull this size be banded or will I have to find someone to cut him? If so, where can I buy a good banding tool?

copperhead46 · #2 08/02/12, 10:03 PM

Take him to your vet, it doesn't cost much and they will know the best way to castrate him. Be sure to have a tetnus shot, too.

Awnry Abe · #3 08/02/12, 10:11 PM

Do you have cows that you are worried about? If not, just keep him intact. The meat will be just fine.

springvalley · #4 08/02/12, 10:14 PM

If your going to cut him, you will need to wait till cold weather. You can band now , but I would wait for cool weather at the least. I would also call the auction barn, and just ask, why does my steer have equipment yet. > Thanks Marc

MO_cows · #5 08/02/12, 10:17 PM

If you get him finished and processed young he will still be good eats. As long as there aren't females on the other side of the fence for him to make trouble over. He could still be castrated but why spend the money and put him thru the stress if you don't have to. And a big 10-4 on the tetanus vaccination plus antitoxin if you do it all at the same time. We lost one to tetanus after castration and it was not pretty.

nchobbyfarm · #6 08/03/12, 05:36 AM

He will be in with my 6 heifer calves that are to small to breed yet. They will not be big enough until January. I have worked out a deal with a friend to use his bull then for the fee of a calf. His bull is a low birth weight bull he uses for heifers. I guess a vet bill is in order. Thanks for your insight.

G. Seddon · #7 08/03/12, 06:56 AM

Whatever you do, please don't put him in with your heifers!

PaulNKS · #8 08/03/12, 07:51 AM

If you have to haul him and pay a vet, I'd just band him at home. As small as he is, you can put a rope on him and snub him to a post or tree or lay him down. If you haven't banded, get your neighbor to help (the one with the bull). If he doesn't band, he'll surely know how and be able to cut the calf for you. It's easy and takes just a few seconds to cut a calf.

springvalley · #9 08/03/12, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

If you have to haul him and pay a vet, I'd just band him at home. As small as he is, you can put a rope on him and snub him to a post or tree or lay him down. If you haven't banded, get your neighbor to help (the one with the bull). If he doesn't band, he'll surely know how and be able to cut the calf for you. It's easy and takes just a few seconds to cut a calf.

But you have to cut a bull when its cold, otherwise you will get maggots in him. You can cut horses and hogs when its hot, but cattle has to be cold. > Thanks Marc

linn · #10 08/03/12, 07:57 AM

We band all of our calves now, your calf should be fine if you band him and give him a tetanus shot.

PaulNKS · #11 08/03/12, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

But you have to cut a bull when its cold, otherwise you will get maggots in him. You can cut horses and hogs when its hot, but cattle has to be cold. > Thanks Marc

No you don't. I agree it's best, but if you spray screw worm aerosol or blue lotion, you won't have any problems.

Possum Belly · #12 08/03/12, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

No you don't. I agree it's best, but if you spray screw worm aerosol or blue lotion, you won't have any problems.

Correct, I have cut many hundreds in the S FLA summers and have never had problems with maggots.

possom · #13 08/03/12, 08:03 AM

Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it.

Before u get a handful of sack get you a banding gun and bands from your local co-op. at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band. If you feel testies inside the sack put a band around them. They are simple to put on. While u have him caught might as was give him a tetanus shot and a dose of durapen to knock out the crap they always seem to get in their lungs from the sell barn. If you don't want to use shot form antibiotics aramysin crumbles can be added to their feed and take care of both of new steers at once.

stifflej · #14 08/03/12, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possom

Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it.

I am glad you mentioned that, I saw for the first time last week at an auction what you mention, had a sack, but didn't look like it was intact, wasn't sure if it was cut, or still a bull, although I did not see the hang-age I was expecting. I have only dealt with banding, so wasn't sure what to make of it. Thanks, makes me feel better.

springvalley · #15 08/03/12, 08:24 AM

Well you guys cut all the bulls you want in the summer, not me, I`m an old timer I guess. > Thanks Marc

PaulNKS · #16 08/03/12, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possom

at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band.

A calf is only just getting a good start at 200 pounds. Most beef cattle aren't weaned until at least 450 to 500 pounds. Ours are usually closer to 650.

If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.

mary,tx · #17 08/03/12, 08:39 AM

For those of you who remember my failed cattle deal, the vet charged $70 to castrate the one we got as a steer. That seemed excessive to me.

But normally we band.

bignugly · #18 08/03/12, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possom

Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it.

Before u get a handful of sack get you a banding gun and bands from your local co-op. at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band. If you feel testies inside the sack put a band around them. They are simple to put on. While u have him caught might as was give him a tetanus shot and a dose of durapen to knock out the crap they always seem to get in their lungs from the sell barn. If you don't want to use shot form antibiotics aramysin crumbles can be added to their feed and take care of both of new steers at once.

If you squeeze his sack and he kicks you. You need to band. I know I would kick if some guy squeezed me there! LOL

possom · #19 08/03/12, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

A calf is only just getting a good start at 200 pounds. Most beef cattle aren't weaned until at least 450 to 500 pounds. Ours are usually closer to 650.

If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.

I understand that. I was just under the impression he has bought these from the sale barn and was just pulled off their momma (weened)

Still a bottle baby.

pancho · #20 08/03/12, 09:29 AM

It is normal for a salesbarn to list almost all of the male calves as steers.

Possum Belly · #21 08/03/12, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pancho

It is normal for a salesbarn to list almost all of the male calves as steers.

If they were steers, they would. And most would be, where I come from. Steers usually bring more per pound.

mary,tx · #22 08/03/12, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.

Our auction has started pulling calves off the older cows when they come into the sale barn, and selling them separately. I guess they figured out they can get more money for them that way.

It does give those of us who want a bottle calf an opportunity to buy a nice beef animal.

PaulNKS · #23 08/03/12, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possom

I understand that. I was just under the impression he has bought these from the sale barn and was just pulled off their momma (weened)

Still a bottle baby.

My apology. I thought you were saying they were weaned at 200. You'd be surprised how many times I've seen "city" farmers buy calves at the sale barn at 200 to 300 pounds and were told they were weaned....

nchobbyfarm · #24 08/03/12, 02:52 PM

Thanks for all the info. They are in the corral at the moment.

Weaned or not, he is now. He was not run through with his momma. He came out of the trailer eatting grass for about 30 minutes. He drank some water. I then split 3 pounds of 16% feed for the 2 and they shared the trough nicely. I then put in a 1/3 of a square bale (60 pound bale). They both ate the feed and then nibbled the hay. I just got home to go check them today.

At 208, he would need a ladder to reach the heifers I would think. They are all 500 to 550. Am I going to have to find somewhere to move him? That will be hard!

I have a call in to my friend to see if he can band or cut him. Waiting to hear back.

momagoat61 · #25 08/03/12, 02:59 PM

Here we clamp our bull calves. We haven't banded nor cut a bull calve in 40 years. We try to clamp the bull calves the day or the day after they are born and give them all pinkeye and blacklegg shots, heifers and bull calves. We don't give tentanus shots to any of them.. We might have 25 plus bull calves born annually, use to have more cattle then we do now and we clamp them all.. My brothers took over the cattle farming for my dad and well the boys aren't as good as dad was and we did have one stagg from last years group of calves. As for clamping, weather doesn't matter, we have clamped in 20 degrees or 95 degrees.

pancho · #26 08/03/12, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Possum Belly

If they were steers, they would. And most would be, where I come from. Steers usually bring more per pound.

I have sales barn reciepts going back to the 1960s. Every bull calf we sold was listed as steers, we didn't casterate anything we would be selling as calves. If we had a few that we thought were worth keeping as bulls we would sell them seperately as bulls and the sales reciept would say bulls.
Those would be sold by the head not by the pound.

ozark_jewels · #27 08/03/12, 04:10 PM

Calves that have been clamped with a burdizzo at an older age can look like a bull................The scrotum is still intact. But upon closer examination, you can feel the testicles are shriveled or hardly there at all. Depends on what age it was done.

nchobbyfarm · #28 08/03/12, 08:56 PM

I guess my biggest question now is when is a calf mature enough to breed. If he is only 208 pounds, how old is he at the most? 3 months or 2 months? When will his equipment mature enough to work?

My neighbor said we need to wait until September and make sure he is healthy from the sale before we add a new stressor. He said he can't breed the heifers that big for at least 6 months? Any thoughts?

opportunity · #29 08/03/12, 10:58 PM

Bulls cn breed as young as 4 months but usually dont' till 6 months or latter. As the heifers are bigger that doesn't mean much bulls will get it done. He might already be a steer some people around here have steers that look like bulls not sure how though.

G. Seddon · #30 08/04/12, 07:00 AM

I think first you must fence off the heifers from anything remotely resembling a bull. (But something tells me you're not planning to do that if you're asking how old he has to be in order to breed.) You will be asking for trouble if you allow those yearling heifers to be bred (potential calving problems among other things). If they've already been exposed and possibly bred, I would terminate the pregnancy.

Then determine if these two "steers" are still intact. If not, then have them castrated when it's cooler. I agree that the change in environment is enough stress for now.

Do you have a large animal vet in your area?