What do you think of these Angus Bulls?

RedRider · #1 07/28/12, 11:28 PM

Hi All

I'm a newbie and have a Black Baldy & a Swiss/Angus cross.
They are about a year old. There is not a vet in our area that does AI, so I'm looking for a bull. I'm interested in the 9 month old Angus on Craigslist since he is close in age to my girls.
What questions do I ask?
Since I only have 2 girls should I wait on a bull and buy drop calfs or pregnant cows. I want to expand our herd.
My neighbor says my girls are to young and since this will be their first pregnancy his bull is too large.

Here is the link:Black angus bulls

Thanks
RedRider

Gregg Alexander · #2 07/29/12, 01:10 AM

Here's my 2 cents worth take it or leave it. Your heifer's are too young at need more age on them need to weigh in the 750 # range at breeding. I would pass on them bulls , from the picture from what I can tell, he doesn't have a rump on him and shoulders are way wide. Are there any dairy's in your area? If so get the Herdsman to AI your heifers when they get big enough and old enough. With just 2 heifers you can't justify paying for a bull at any price. Take that $1000 and go buy 1-2 short solid , preg cows your money is better spent. My 2 cents worth

RedRider · #3 07/29/12, 02:26 AM

Gregg

Thanks for your advice & critique of the bull. I'm thinking pregnant cows are the way to go.
I believe there are a few dairy's about 40 miles from here.

Thanks Again
RedRider

tinknal · #4 07/29/12, 08:39 AM

I agree with Gregg. For the money you would spend on a bull you could take an ai class and buy the equipment.

You could also rent a bull.

RedRider · #5 07/29/12, 10:30 AM

Tinknal

Thanks ... That is a good idea!

RedRider

FEF · #6 07/29/12, 02:05 PM

I agree with your neighbor. Generally heifers will be bred to calve as two-year-olds (at about 14-15 months). Some breeds won't be cycling by then, but most beef breeds will be.

Questions to ask about the bull:

1. Is the bull registered? What's his Angus Assn registration #?
2. What's the bull's birth weight (BW) EPD? You'll want an Angus bull with a BW EPd of less than 3 lbs to use on first calf heifers. 1 or 2 is better.
3. What was the bulls own BW? What does he weigh now? Pedigree? Sire, dam, etc?
4. Has he been fertility checked? If not, will the seller pay for a fertility check?
5. They're not very good looking bulls. IMO, he has them priced way too high.

Truthfully, I wouldn't want to deal with this person under any circumstances. His ad is more of a rant insulting other breeders than giving you facts about these bulls.

How to expand your herd is a tough call. Prices are pretty high (at least here) for bred cows or pairs. But it takes a long time to grow your own herd. If both of your heifers have heifer calves next year, it's another two years before THOSE heifers will have calves. Plus developing heifers is not cheap and there will often be some turn up infertile.

If you can afford it, buy some cows with calves at side. At least you know the cow is capable of breeding and calving, plus you have something to sell in a few months.

AI is great. We had a total AI program for many years. But there will always be one or two cows that don't settle on the AI first service. Then you have to watch for additional heats. A bull is handy to have in those situations. The nitrogen tank has to be serviced on a regular basis and, of course, semen bought along with other AI supplies.

There's a vet in our area who takes cattle in and gets them bred. He's not cheap, but then you don't have to deal with a bull all year around. And bulls are different from cows. I swear sometimes they're looking for something to tear up.

SpaceCadet12364 · #7 07/29/12, 02:12 PM

Take the class and get equipment. Then buy nice straws or embryo's and do it yourself. here they are not going for that about 1.25 or less for a steer that size. Bulls bring less.
That and you don't know birth weights. Don't want cow trying to give birth to 100lb calf.

RedRider · #8 07/29/12, 03:54 PM

FEF
Thanks for the list of questions to ask. That will come in handy later on.
Cow/calf pairs are expensive here as well. My neighbor is going to come with me to buy.
I'm excited about this shopping trip!
Thanks for your reply.

Space Cadet

I'm going to look into the class. Hopefully I can find one near us.
Thanks for your time!
I really appreciate all the honest reply's!
I'm truly thankful I found this forum.

RedRider

Allen W · #9 07/29/12, 06:30 PM

A quality breeder would show some side and behind shots.

PaulNKS · #10 07/29/12, 08:53 PM

In your opening post, you stated that none of the vets in your area do AI. Vets aren't the only people that can AI.

Also, while you wait on your heifers to get old enough to breed, it will give you time to take the class.

I would also point out that if you are new to livestock, you may not have much success doing your own AI. Even some of the best, at times, will be lucky if they can hit 80%. I had a vet tell me once that statistically, man will usually average 50% and a pasture bull will average 80%. I think those rates are low.

Good luck.

Oh.. one other thing. Most cattleman breed their heifers to calve at 24 months of age. We breed them to calve at 28 months.

RedRider · #11 07/30/12, 12:16 AM

PaulNKS

I appreciate your advice. I will wait until they are between 24 - 28 months old to breed. In the meantime I can take the class and ask other neighbors who they use.
This area is very weird...none of the vets will come out for a cow. I have horses as well and my vet will not look at the cows even if its an emergency. All the neighbors complain about it and say you better learn to doctor them as they will die unless you trailer them to the vet school 2.5 hours away.

Thanks
RedRider

Jessilee7 · #12 07/30/12, 02:10 AM

Red Rider- just to make sure you understood... you don't wait until 24 months to breed, you want them to calve at 24-28 months old.

RedRider · #13 07/30/12, 06:23 AM

Jessilee7....Ahh boy did I read that wrong! Thanks for pointing that out

RedRider

SpaceCadet12364 · #14 07/30/12, 06:43 AM

If you have a vet school offer your animals for practice if needed. That way exams and care are free. You maybe able to get AI'd free. If student's have question's about odd breed's they send them to us.(highlands) Also if You live near a dairy they will AI at certain times and do allot at ounce and if they have time will slide one or two more in.
For a fee of course. I do recommend learning to spot signs of trouble if vet wont come out.
And you will have to bring them to the dairy wait and thing take them home.

G. Seddon · #15 07/30/12, 06:49 AM

RedRider, didn't you say there is a dairy in your area? Many dairies do strictly AI for breeding. Maybe they'd be willing to breed your cows and store semen for you. If you can find someone who's very tuned in to Angus EPD's, that person could recommend the right bull for your heifers (low birth weight, calving ease, etc.). Just a thought......

theporkstork · #16 07/30/12, 10:25 AM

If you can travel some, there should be an AI class at either the Modesto Junior College or California State University-Fresno. I don't know a contact person at the Modesto Junior College but Dr. Scott Williamson is who you could contact at CSUF.

Awnry Abe · #17 07/30/12, 11:35 AM

What do you all think of the option for the OP of purchasing a good bull, letting him work for a couple of months, then selling him back on the marketplace? The cash wouldn't be locked into the asset for long term, and risk from volatility should be low over a short period of time. Are bulls, and the cattle marketplace, not forgiving of this type of idea? I've done this with moderate success in the goat world. (Moderate meaning that all of the does got bred, and the billy sold for slightly less than purchased).

ramiller5675 · #18 07/30/12, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrownRanch

What do you all think of the option for the OP of purchasing a good bull, letting him work for a couple of months, then selling him back on the marketplace?

If you did that, what would you do the next year for a bull?

A good bull isn't and shouldn't be cheap and the only place you are probably going to sell a bull after you've used him to breed your cows is at the stockyards as a slaughter bull. Even if you could find someone to buy your "used" bull, you could only expect to sell him for slaughter price (or at least that's all I would pay).

Paying $3000 and up for a good registered bull and then taking a significant loss by selling him a few months later doesn't make economic sense to me.

RedRider · #19 07/30/12, 07:03 PM

SpaceCadet If you have a vet school offer your animals for practice if needed. That way exams and care are free. You maybe able to get AI'd free. If student's have question's about odd breed's they send them to us.(highlands) Also if You live near a dairy they will AI at certain times and do allot at ounce and if they have time will slide one or two more in.
For a fee of course. I do recommend learning to spot signs of trouble if vet wont come out.
And you will have to bring them to the dairy wait and thing take them home.

Thanks for the heads up on the vet school, I had no idea.. will call and see what happens.
There are some dairy's around,so I will have to look into that as well!

Thanks
RedRider

RedRider · #20 07/30/12, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Seddon

RedRider, didn't you say there is a dairy in your area? Many dairies do strictly AI for breeding. Maybe they'd be willing to breed your cows and store semen for you. If you can find someone who's very tuned in to Angus EPD's, that person could recommend the right bull for your heifers (low birth weight, calving ease, etc.). Just a thought......

Thanks for the feedback! I will have to ask around to find a good Angus source

RedRider