Dairy people PLEASE help!

ashleep · #1 07/23/12, 11:46 AM

My jersey had a very swollen and painful teat at milking time yesterday morning, so bad that it took me 2 tearful and frustrating hours to milk. The front 2 quarters and back right are fine. The only way I was able to milk her out was to use the bottom half inch of the teat. After A LOT of kicking I was able to feel a marble sized lump in her teat, about halfway up. By the end of milking it was considerably smaller. Same scenario last night and this morning the lump was bigger, seemed to extend upwards, and seemed more painful. She does not mind if I massage her bag, but the teat is virtually off limits. There are no lumps or heat anywhere in the udder. what little milk I managed to not spill from her kicking was normal looking milk. I called two vets this morning and they said 2 different things. The first said not mastitis, likely a polyp or fibroma, needs surgery to remove and she'll likely lose that quarter. Second vet said mastitis, though he has less experience with large animals and did not sound very confident on the phone. I am going to get some Today to treat her with,or attempt to treat her anyway. I don't know how in the world I am going to stick a needle up the teat when she will barely even let me touch it.

Eta ....she is 8 months into her second lactation, I am milking twice a day,the calf is weaned. I did not miss any milking this weekend, but I was irregular in my timing.

Have any of you ever seen anything like this? Any advice is greatly appreciated!!

topside1 · #2 07/23/12, 12:09 PM

If you can provide a photo, it would really be helpful....There are several professional dairy types on this forum that could possibily help out....Topside

ashleep · #3 07/23/12, 12:31 PM

Is the only way to upload thru shutterfly etc? If so I can but it will be a little while bc I'm on my phone

springvalley · #4 07/23/12, 01:07 PM

Well this making a diagnosis from hundreds of miles away is not great. I have milked most of my life, this does not sound like mastitis, does the cow have a low hanging udder? She may have stepped on her own teat, and hurt it that way. I have had a few do that over the years, and they can be very painfull and sore. I had one peal half the skin off a teat about a month ago, and BOY was that a battle for a few days. I have no idea how some of you new floks ever take care of problems, because I am about to throw in the towel every once and awhile. So she may have a lump from an injury, like I said hard to tell from here. > Thanks Marc

Judy in IN · #5 07/23/12, 01:16 PM

I'm not going to diagnos. I'm just going to help you. Swing by the drugstore and pick up some Ora-Jel. (you'll find it in the dental section). Rub that onto the tender area, wait a couple minutes, then milk out that quarter.

You know she's only kicking because you're hurting her, poor girl.

This works great for injuries where you have to handle the udder.

Good luck!

Judy in IN · #6 07/23/12, 01:32 PM

I'm not going to diagnos. I'm just going to help you. Swing by the drugstore and pick up some Ora-Jel. (you'll find it in the dental section). Rub that onto the tender area, wait a couple minutes, then milk out that quarter.

You know she's only kicking because you're hurting her, poor girl.

This works great for injuries where you have to handle the udder.

Good luck!

ashleep · #7 07/23/12, 01:55 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I know she's hurting. I have nursed 3 babies of my own and had plugged ducts and mastitis myself, so I truly feel her pain! I am just so perplexed because I have never read about anything like this. I will definitely get some orajel. The first vet's phone diagnosis is so scary...anesthesia to extract the lump, likely losing the quarter?! yikes!

Her bag is not low hanging, it's nice and high.

Marc, I was *this close* to calling it quits when she kicked poop in my face and then again when she sent the cayenne oil I was rubbing her with all over my eyes and nose. Ouch! But my pregnancy hormones induced a good dose of sympathy for her so I just had a good cry and kept going. lol

ashleep · #8 07/23/12, 03:44 PM

Milking wasn't so bad just now. It still took forever and she pooped and kicked a lot, but I got her milked out on all 4. I'm off to get some Today meds and some ora-jel. I am admittedly pretty nervous about doing it for the first time by myself on such a sore teat.

tinknal · #9 07/23/12, 08:34 PM

I would get a dilator to milk her out until you get this cleared up. I know some folks don't like them but I've used them with good results on injured udders. Try the kind with a screw on cap so you don't need to take it out.

**gone-a-milkin** · #10 07/23/12, 08:54 PM

I would not use a dialator. She says she is getting her milked out.
Those dialators are a last resort kind of thing.
They nearly always damage the teat end and introduce bacteria.

springvalley · #11 07/23/12, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleep

Thanks for the replies.

I know she's hurting. I have nursed 3 babies of my own and had plugged ducts and mastitis myself, so I truly feel her pain! I am just so perplexed because I have never read about anything like this. I will definitely get some orajel. The first vet's phone diagnosis is so scary...anesthesia to extract the lump, likely losing the quarter?! yikes!

Her bag is not low hanging, it's nice and high.

Marc, I was *this close* to calling it quits when she kicked poop in my face and then again when she sent the cayenne oil I was rubbing her with all over my eyes and nose. Ouch! But my pregnancy hormones induced a good dose of sympathy for her so I just had a good cry and kept going. lol

If I gave up every time I got pooh in the face,

I would have quit several times this week. You have to really love cows to keep them around, otherwise everyone would want to do it. hehe > Thanks Marc

Ronney · #12 07/24/12, 06:18 AM

I'm not going to diagnose either but had a very similar experience some years ago with a cow that I still have. One morning she came in with a swollen teat and when it came to milking, there was a pea-sized lump on the inside of her teat that I could feel clearly as I milked. There was no external damage to the teat. This cow is like the Rock of Gibralter and kicking doesn't enter into her sphere of things to do but she was obviously unhappy - fidgeted, ears drooped, no cudding, eyes wide open when normally she closes her eyes and chews her cud with her jaw clunking on the bale gate. Milk clear and good, no mastitis. It took nearly a week for the swelling to go down and once that had gone she was much happier but it took two years for the "pea" to disappear. I did nothing for her, after all what was I going to treat? No mastitis, no infection, milked as strongly from that quarter as she ever did so no obstruction. I suspect that she had knocked or injured it, possibly weeks before, causing the internal teat injury to cyst as a means of healing. I spoke to a dairy vet about it once and he thought that I was probably right.

Continue to milk that quarter because you don't want mastitis, and just keep an eye on both the teat and her general health. My feeling is that she will come right from it.

Cheers,
Ronnie

ashleep · #13 07/24/12, 12:14 PM

Thanks again for the replies.

I can milk her out, but it is a huge battle and I can only milk below the marble-lump. Her back teats are short, and this 'marble' is right in the middle of it. It is painstaking milking just the bottom third of the teat, and I worry that I just think I am getting it all.

I went by the local dairy and talked to the owner. He says an old timer told him to take 2 pencils pinched together at the top of the teat, slide them down and pop out the mass. He says he's done it and the cow healed fine and continued to milk fine. Yikes. I just don't know. It is marble sized, not pea sized. After I milked her out I tried to massage it and loosen it some to see if it moved at all. MAYBE a little. It definitely seems smaller when she's empty.

Last night I did end up giving her a tube of Today in the hopes that if it is an internal injury with some inflammation ca. used by infection that maybe it would make it smaller/easier to work with. No luck this morning. It's just exhausting spending an hour and a half milking one cow and not knowing how long this will last. I would say if anything it's bigger than the first day (Sunday morning).

Judy in IN · #14 07/24/12, 01:35 PM

I'd get the first vet out; not just talk to him on the phone. If anyone is going to try something like the pencil trick, I'd rather it was him.

Try tying one leg up so that she can't kick without falling down.
I'd be sprinkling some vit C on her feed for a few days to see if it would take
The inflammation down.

Hang in there! We're all pulling for you. Even if the vet says one thing on the phone, the in-person opinion will probably differ.

springvalley · #15 07/24/12, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleep

I went by the local dairy and talked to the owner. He says an old timer told him to take 2 pencils pinched together at the top of the teat, slide them down and pop out the mass. He says he's done it and the cow healed fine and continued to milk fine. Yikes. I just don't know. It is marble sized, not pea sized. After I milked her out I tried to massage it and loosen it some to see if it moved at all. MAYBE a little. It definitely seems smaller when she's empty..

All I can say, OUCH !!! You think she kicks now, try this and you might be picking up your teeth off the floor of the barn. I sure would want a vet that knows what he is doing when it comes to this kind of problem, he could do more damage than good. Marble sized is very large when it comes to a teat canal, I would hate to try a squeeze that out of her. Is the lump hard? Maybe it`s a tumor of some kind, they made things to remove tumors from teat canals, and I thought I had one, but have no idea where it could be. Best of luck to you, hang in there, it will get better after a while. > Thanks Marc

ashleep · #16 07/26/12, 01:01 PM

I have lost a lot of respect for the dairy owner. Upon further questioning yesterday, he admitted to NOT being able to continue milking the quarter he uses the pencil trick for, and that he has to 'break up' the mass before he gets it out, AND that the cow usually gets a bad case of mastitis from this procedure. Sounds pretty stinkin' harsh to me. He also advised me to continue drinking the milk from the other 3 quarters despite the fact that I gave her a tube of Today for infection.

I have tried calling the vet (again) with the most cow experience and now he won't return my calls. So I am now widening my search to vets an hour away to see if anyone is more knowledgeable.

The mass is still there, and now she does have mastitis. I was doing my best to milk her out, but I guess I was unsuccessful.

topside1 · #17 07/26/12, 02:56 PM

Another clear example of how I used to preach, "buy a heifer, wait the two years for milk" it's usually worth it. Buying used cows is similiar to buying used cars. Sorry to hear about your problem, I'm sure the seller forgot to mention it prior to payment....I was taken once, never again.....Sorry again....Topside

ashleep · #18 07/26/12, 03:02 PM

We bought this girl as a heifer and trained her to milk. This diary guy is just who we buy feed from (he mixes it himself) and chitchat with. He will not be touching MY cow. I was just saying I lost some respect for him because he subjects his cows to painful procedures by himself to keep from paying a vet bill. Sad for his cows.

topside1 · #19 07/26/12, 03:08 PM

I misunderstood, how about finding another dairyman to look at your cow and form an on the farm opinion? Just a thought, Topside

ashleep · #20 07/26/12, 03:12 PM

He is the only one around for many miles. I found an actual vet that specializes in dairy cows, but he is out of town until Mon, and he's over an hour and a half away.

So now my decision is whether to wait it out and see what dairy vet says on the phone, or call the first vet that doesn't think we can save the quarter. Meanwhile mastitis is now present since milking below the stupid mass in her teat is so hard.

G. Seddon · #21 07/26/12, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judy in IN

I'd get the first vet out; not just talk to him on the phone. If anyone is going to try something like the pencil trick, I'd rather it was him.

Hang in there! We're all pulling for you. Even if the vet says one thing on the phone, the in-person opinion will probably differ.

I agree! While it might be helpful to have a "dairy vet," I believe most large animal vets would be capable of handling this problem and I'd want one out to see her sooner, not later.

Hope you can get some real help before Monday!!!

springvalley · #22 07/26/12, 06:35 PM

I am greatful everyday that I have one of the best vets around, I would go to him myself if he would only see people. > Thanks Marc

PatriciD · #23 07/28/12, 10:05 PM

I was a dairy farmer for 30 years and remember a lump like that at least one time.
The vet called it a "spider". He inserted an instrument into the teat canal and slit it, pulling some of it out. The cow did leak on that quarter. She also got mastitis after the procedure.
Do Not drink the milk from the other quarters if using Today. Follow the directions for withholding milk on the box.

I hope this helps....somewhat. Pat

springvalley · #24 07/28/12, 11:00 PM

I found the tool I was talking about, same for PatriciD I would guess. It was on the eNasco web site, go to eNASCO Online Catalogs Worldwide Service To Education, Health, Agriculture, Industry and put in teat tumor extractor, and it will show you what it is. This is what I was talking about, it removes tumors from a teat canal. > Thanks Marc

willow_girl · #25 07/29/12, 09:00 AM

Teat slitter. I have known some farmers to use these. Seems most just keep trying to milk out the quarter. I'd say more often than not, the teat ends up being lost.

Worth having the vet take a look. He or she can give you a better product than Today for the mastitis, too.

ashleep · #26 08/02/12, 10:28 AM

No good news here. Lumps showed up in the other rear teat, and vet felt more coming on in yet another. The vet is testing for BLV. He is not optimistic that it's anything else. We are likely going to have to put her down.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.

springvalley · #27 08/02/12, 01:14 PM

So sorry to hear that, I lost a cow to cancer a couple years ago. > Thanks Marc

willow_girl · #28 08/02/12, 11:10 PM

Oh geez.
So sorry ...

ashleep · #29 08/06/12, 10:01 PM

Well now we're just stumped. Tests came back negative for BLV, which is great news, but what the bleep is it?? Vet called two other vets that are very knowledgeable dairy men and they were clueless.

The pain is now gone in all teats, I am able to milk her out with almost no kicking. It takes longer than normal because the lumps are in the way, but its doable.

Sooo, I am going to proceed as I would if I had 'cysts' in my body. I am going to start mixing 1T turmeric in her feed (anti-inflammatory) and see if that has any effect. I've read it has worked wonders on dog cysts/growths.

Deniser · #30 09/04/12, 02:28 PM

Good afternoon, Ashleep,

Was just reading through here and hope everything is going well. Is your cow doing better?

Sincerely,

Denise