Thinking About Cows

[hillbilly123]

Hey folks, I have a 12 acre farm and have some sheep now, and while getting some hay today I got to chatting with the farmer I bought the hay from about beef. He was telling me about raising Jersey bull calves for meat, and in my area (central ohio), you can get these little bulls very inexpensively.

That got me sort of curious about getting a calf for freezer meat. I did a little research on here and it seems that Jersey meat gets mixed reviews, and it seems like maybe the breed is not best suited to being entirely grass fed, which is what I would want to do.

Now, when I started the sheep flock, I initially wanted to raise cows, but the startup costs of a small angus herd are rather expensive. Not to mention the increasing cost of corn to grain finish, so I decided to go with sheep that are going to be entirely grass fed.

Are there any inexpensive breeds, that do well entirely on grass, that can be pastured / housed with sheep? I'd love to have 1 or 2 max around for freezer beef, and my conversation today sparked some interest. I'm really trying to feel this out at this point, would love to get some feedback to see if my situation / requirements are realistic. Here are my requirements:

1. ALL grass fed / finished. (rotated between 3 different 3acres fields and hay in the winter)
2. Only freezer meat, do not want to breed.
3. Must be gentle enough to keep along sheep / lambs / horses. If there is a breed that can double as a sheep guardian that is a plus.
4. Calf should be inexpensive (less than $400 for a weaned, dehorned, banded bull or heifer).

[arnie]

The jerseys are cheaper because they don't grow as big as the hosteens .though they don't eat as much it still takes the same time and labor to feed them .the dairy breeds won't fatten up or have as tender of meat as a angus or herford .the steaks and roast won't marble with fat like prime grain fed beef .but if you are
Looking for good lean hamburger and like to use beef in stews and cube steak or use the crock pot or slow roast he roast a jersey will work fine lots of people like them we had one butcherd a couple years ago ,we told the butcher we only want a couple roast the best steaks and the rest into hamburger its still good.I raise my brown swiss'es 1/2 angus calf for my beef the last few years idon't need all that milk and don't have to spend all that time milking .I get all the dairy I need and send a baby beef to the butcher at about 6-700 pounds I get wonderful tender meat but still not prime steaks .grocery stores don't even carry prime beef .the leaner grass fed more heart healthy meat is what is popular now.

[wvdexters]

Dexter steers might be right for you. The heifers are expensive especially registered stock, but young bulls are just sold for meat unless they are going to be kept for breeding. They are beefier than jerseys and don't require any extra feed. They only eat about half what larger breeds eat any usually dress out at about 60%. Meat is top quality. Grass and hay will do them just fine. I would stay away from Jersey bulls IMO. They can be extremely aggressive and even dangerous. I had one once. Never again. He went after me twice. The first time my old farm dog held him off until I got through the fence. The second time it took the dog and my husband with a maul handle. Needless to say he went to freezer camp that week.

[hillbilly123]

Thanks, I'll look into the breed and see if I can find some in central Ohio. From the quick reading I did, it does seem like they may be a good fit and I did see a couple on craigslist for $500 each.

How docile are Dexters? Can I put them right in with sheep and horses without issue?

[G. Seddon]

Originally Posted by hillbilly123

Thanks, I'll look into the breed and see if I can find some in central Ohio. From the quick reading I did, it does seem like they may be a good fit and I did see a couple on craigslist for $500 each.

How docile are Dexters? Can I put them right in with sheep and horses without issue?

Dexters can be quite docile, when familiar with people and handled calmly. Like any breed, there are the high-headed ones. And like any other animal, the more gentle attention you give it, the better it responds.

Can you put them with sheep and horses? Sheep cannot share cattle minerals (copper is a no-no for sheep but necessary for cattle). Horses may or may not get along with cattle. Most Dexters have horns. This could be a problem when it comes time for hay and winter care. It may best be determined on a case-by-case basis; use your best judgment.

Depending on what you've got growing on your 12 acres, you might want to be conservative in combining sheep, horses, and cattle. It won't go far. In my opinion, you'll regret it if you overstock with 3 different species!

[haypoint]

Get a cheap Jersey bull. get him castrated and de-horned right away.
Sheep eat grass right at ground level, leaving none for cattle. Cowboys driving cattle to market hated sheep for that reason. So, what supports sheep, might not feed cattle.
Keep your steer on pasture and hay, but there is no reason not to finish him on 6 weeks of cracked corn. Have you eaten grass finished beef or just heard about it by folks selling it?

[hillbilly123]

Originally Posted by haypoint

.
Keep your steer on pasture and hay, but there is no reason not to finish him on 6 weeks of cracked corn. Have you eaten grass finished beef or just heard about it by folks selling it?

Just heard about it to be honest. I buy beef from a friend that raises angus x's (grain finished), and he charges around 500 per quarter + butcher bill. We *might* go through 1/4 per year, depending on how lucky I get with venison in the fall. We prefer venison to beef though, maybe because we like the "gamey" taste from wild game, plus it seems much leaner. It would be nice to get the same quality from our farm and not depend on the fall hunt so much. Thats really what I am after here.

We only have 6 sheep and 2 horses, and they cannot put a dent into our fields, I still have to bush hog them a couple of times per year. I feel like the carrying capacity is such that I could have 1-2 cows in conjunction with our horses and sheep and not over graze. I could be wrong however.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by hillbilly123

Just heard about it to be honest. I buy beef from a friend that raises angus x's (grain finished), and he charges around 500 per quarter + butcher bill. We *might* go through 1/4 per year, depending on how lucky I get with venison in the fall. We prefer venison to beef though, maybe because we like the "gamey" taste from wild game, plus it seems much leaner. It would be nice to get the same quality from our farm and not depend on the fall hunt so much. Thats really what I am after here.

We only have 6 sheep and 2 horses, and they cannot put a dent into our fields, I still have to bush hog them a couple of times per year. I feel like the carrying capacity is such that I could have 1-2 cows in conjunction with our horses and sheep and not over graze. I could be wrong however.

I like venison, too. After eating venison for a few months, I thought beef tasted funny. So, there is a "what you are use to" factor.
Your friend has a good deal going if he's getting $2000 plus butcher costs for his fat steers.
Grain does a lot more than prevent the "gamey" taste. IMHO grass fed beef is dry and tough. It isn't just picking between lean healthy beef and fat laden beef. I'd sugest you get some grass fed beef to try yourself. A whole steer is a big "trial".

[hillbilly123]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Your friend has a good deal going if he's getting $2000 plus butcher costs for his fat steers.".

That's my thought as well, he charges 1.70/lb on the hoof. If you do the math on a ~1200 lb steer, it works out to about $500 per quarter then about 125 butcher bill. Its great beef, don't get me wrong, but it seems like I could buy a calf for that.

[wvdexters]

I have never had horses or sheep in with cattle so I don't know how they all would do together. G Seddon raised a good point about horns with horses. That is something to think about. There are naturally polled dexters available. I personally like horns. They give the cattle a little extra for protection.
The American Dexter Cattle Assoc website has a lot of good info on the breed. I know there are many good breeders in the Ohio area. Dexters are a dual purpose breed; dairy and beef. Some lines are more milky and some are beefier. Make sure your steer is from a beef line so he'll do well for you.

[ozark_jewels]

Truthfully, I had never had *just* grass fed beef until now. Sure, our beeves are always pastured but they get some feed toward butchering and as calves.
We recently butchered a completely naturally(never shots, vacs, etc) grassfed Jersey bull of ours. Came right off pasture, never had anything but that and hay. He was 4 years old and delicious. We had used him for breeding but no longer needed him. Not dry or tough at all. Can't say he tasted any better than our other beef, but easily just as good.
So now I can say that the all grassfed Jersey beef I've had, has been delicious.

[DJ in WA]

Everyone's tastes are different, but the last grassfed steer I had was so good it made my mouth cramp. To me, made the stuff from the store seem bland. My understanding is tenderness is a separate issue from fatness.

As for the Jerseys, yes they can taste good, but just know as a dairy breed, they are designed to lack muscle. So it's going to take much more feed to get a pound of beef than beefier breeds. Cheap up front, but expensive in the long run. Just like you don't buy Leghorn layers to grow chicken to eat.

Dexters aren't the beefiest, either, at least what I had and have seen. For a simple answer, I'd get a red angus or hereford steer or two out of good stock. Black cattle get hotter when in the sun.

[HDRider]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

Everyone's tastes are different, but the last grassfed steer I had was so good it made my mouth cramp. To me, made the stuff from the store seem bland. My understanding is tenderness is a separate issue from fatness.

As for the Jerseys, yes they can taste good, but just know as a dairy breed, they are designed to lack muscle. So it's going to take much more feed to get a pound of beef than beefier breeds. Cheap up front, but expensive in the long run. Just like you don't buy Leghorn layers to grow chicken to eat.

Dexters aren't the beefiest, either, at least what I had and have seen. For a simple answer, I'd get a red angus or hereford steer or two out of good stock. Black cattle get hotter when in the sun.

There are number of factors that affect the taste of beef. One is grass vs. grain. The condition of the live beef Body Condition Scoring: The Cattle Producer's Resource - Stress Stress and Meat Quality - Hang time G2209 Recommendations for Aging Beef | University of Missouri Extension

I am sure there are many more – The inherit genetics affect things too, and there are breed differences. Breed discussions can easily lead to an argument.