Tired of skim milk

[bulldog]

We are to the point of selling our bottle raised 4 year old jersey Holstein cross. She refuses to give us any cream! She has literally been giving us skim milk. Here is our story, I know it was her raising that has done this but we really don't want to sell her so I'm hoping for some wisdom from the experts. We had always planned on leaving the calf with our dairy cow, some farmers said we were crazy, now I see why. Anyway our heifer finally calved and we got another calf to graft onto her. That was a whole other war. So from the beginning we would only milk maybe every other day, or when we needed milk, the rest of the time the calves took care of her. If we wanted milk the next day we would lock the calves in that night and milk in the morning. It has been great. We now also have a Holstein that we do the same with. So we get out milk and meat, and no demanding twice a day milking. This is her second lactation and she will give us, I'm not kidding 5 full gallons a milking. We have finally gotten the new calf for this year grafted on, and now my husband milks both cows once every other day. Now Lilly has always had some quirks, she will not give you more than a quart of milk in the evening. Even if she is bursting full of milk she will not drop it. Fine we like to milk in the morning. But these last few weeks she has been giving us less and less cream. Till last milking it was literally blue skim milk. As soon as she gets comfortable she stops dropping. She does not let her teats refill. She is saving it for her calf. We do way to much work to not be able to make cheese and butter as I usually do. We milk with a surge milker, the barn is quiet, and I know this is our fault for starting her out the way we did.She is too smart for her own good. We have thought of sending her to a dairy to "learn" how to milk, but I fear she will be back to her old tricks next lactation with a new calf. The Holstein came from a dairy and even though she has her calf this year she milks out beautifully, she does not know she can hold back her milk and all she wants to do is get into the stantion, Lilly dances and swishes her tail the whole time. So we are to the point of taking her to the auction and buying another jersey that has been is a dairy barn. The Holsteins milk is a bit to tasteless for me! help!

[gone-a-milkin]

Have you tested her for mastitis?

The pale bluish milk, tail-swishing, not letting down, and only milking her every other day are all indicators of it.

[Cliff]

We've had cows and goats hold back like this when the baby is left on them with us milking once a day. It's not uncommon and it isn't anything you did. Just a mother looking out for her offspring.

I don't know how it would work using a milker, but the easiest solution for us - since we always wanted to leave the babies on them - has been to let baby nurse one teat while we milk the other three. They always let down that way.

I know some people won't put up with the hassle and will just pull the calves and bottle feed but to me that's just too much work and the calves do so much better left on the cow. Plus the freedom from milking all the time is awesome - you can skip days if you need to and everybody is ok.

ETA - I wouldn't send her to a dairy - she won't learn anything, she knows she can hold back if she needs to feed a calf, that won't ever change. And you'd be potentially exposing her to Johne's. Not worth the risk especially since there is no real benefit to doing it.

You're just going to have to figure out how to work with it.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by gone-a-milkin

Have you tested her for mastitis?

The pale bluish milk, tail-swishing, not letting down, and only milking her every other day are all indicators of it.

Lol these are also indicators of a ----ed off cow who is holding back for her calf BTDT

If she has two calves on her I wouldn't really worry about the milking every other day thing.

[springvalley]

Why not leave the calves on this cow and milk the other cow every day ? If your milking both cows every other day anyway, sounds like a solution. Just let the one cow raise the calves and milk one. Then sell the cow next time before she has her calf and let someone else milk her. > Thanks Marc

[PaulNKS]

That's the one reason dairies never let the calf suck even once. Most farm farmilies never let a calf nurse a milk cow, either... it's only in recent times with new city converts that people have started leaving calves on cows AND trying to milk.

As to the lack of cream.. Holsteins were bred for little cream. I don't know about now, but previously, dairies would add jerseys to the milking string just to be able to have cream in the milk.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

That's the one reason dairies never let the calf suck even once. Most farm farmilies never let a calf nurse a milk cow, either... it's only in recent times with new city converts that people have started leaving calves on cows AND trying to milk.

As to the lack of cream.. Holsteins were bred for little cream. I don't know about now, but previously, dairies would add jerseys to the milking string just to be able to have cream in the milk.

Sometimes old farm boys who grew up a slave to milking twice a day do it too when they don't need much milk and in order to have a lot more freedom

The op seems to understand that the cream is in the hindmilk and since the cow is holding back that's why they aren't getting cream.

[matt_man]

I would pull the calves and put them on the holstein and milk the other cow. In a few days she will learn to let down because she isn't getting those babies back and you'll have all the milk and cream you want.

I have some cows that I can share milk with and some that won't. I always have one of the cows be a nurse cow for the calves of the cows that won't sharemilk.

[sammyd]

If getting milk is a big deal, do what the big guys do and get some oxytocin. If you lost your mind and sent her back to a big dairy to "learn how to milk" all they would do is give her an injection.
Never leave calves on cows you want to milk and for cripes sake get serious about milking. You have thoroughly confused this cow.

[bulldog]

For cripes sake get serious about milking????? I have a toddler I'm pregnant, I make ALL our cheese, butter, yogurt, I take care of a 120 by 50 veggie garden, we only eat whole foods (that's a lot of time in the kitchen),butcher all my own meat,my husband work full time, and you want me to get serious about milking? We have two cows that are healthy (thank God),stripped clean of milk 24-7 and are raising loads of meat for us. I am serious about plenty of things. The Holstein accomplishes this routine with no problem, its the jersey who is to smart for her own good. Thank you all for your advice, we will see what we can do!

[ozark_jewels]

Some cows you can share milk with a calf or two comfortably, some you cannot. Some behave equally well for owner and calves, others should be strictly owner milked for everyones sanity. Depends on the cow. If a cow has decided that her calf should not have to share milk, I've never yet managed to correct the bad attitude while the calf is still on there. Take calf away and after the bawling stops, usually the cow will start behaving again.
I doubt you "trained" her to be like this, other than the fact that you left the calf on. If you need to cowshare with a calf, you may just need a cow that is easy-going enough to do this.
Some work for this situation, others do not.

[ozark_jewels]

Some of these responses are making me laugh......

Leaving calves on dairy cows is a recent idea of ex-city folks?? I've read plenty of books(true accounts) of people in the past milking a Jersey while the calf sucked.

I myself grew up on a farm, my parents grew up on a farm(well, Dad did) where we always let the Jerseys raise their calves *and* we milked them.
It is not a recent development. Its been around a long time before bottling or bucketing calves.

For some situations(dairies especially) it won't work, for obvious reasons. But it can work well for most familes with just one or two milk cows.

Dairies don't let calves suck, not even once??

Probably not at the big dairies and at some not-so-big dairies. But all the dairies I've visited or worked at(and that is quite a few), leaves the calves with the cow for 24-48 hours. No problems, the calf gets all the colostrum it can eat.....and the milk can't go into the tank for at least a few days anyway. So many dairies DO let their calves suck, then train them to a bottle. We do on our(small) dairy.

[Creamers]

Leaving calves on dairy cows is a recent idea of ex-city folks?? I've read plenty of books(true accounts) of people in the past milking a Jersey while the calf sucked.

Most of the older folks I know now that grew up with a family jersey cow or two did the same.

[sammyd]

I have lived in the dairy state for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone leaving a calf on a cow and trying to get milk from it until I started hanging out here.

Yes, get serious about milking. I really could care less what your personal situation is, I've seen pregnant women taking care of 40 cows and 10 other kids, driving school bus and doing field work milk every cow twice a day.
Milking a cow once every other day and expecting her to co-operate is ridiculous.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by sammyd

I have lived in the dairy state for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone leaving a calf on a cow and trying to get milk from it until I started hanging out here.

Yes, get serious about milking. I really could care less what your personal situation is, I've seen pregnant women taking care of 40 cows and 10 other kids, driving school bus and doing field work milk every cow twice a day.
Milking a cow once every other day and expecting her to co-operate is ridiculous.

I'll remember that because you had never heard of it, its ridiculous.............
I'll tell my Jerseys that in the dairy state, they don't do it this way......maybe they'll stop letting me share with the calves.
The only thing I see thats ridiculous is you deciding from afar that she is wrong and should be doing more. Just because its not "the norm". does not mean its a wrong way to do it.
The lady is milking the Holstien every other day and she is cooperating. If it works with one cow, she may just have to find another cow it works with too. The calves keep the cow milked out so that the owners do not need to milk every day. If that works for her, the cow is not hurting, so she probably just needs to find another cow that will work as well as the Holstien.
By the way, I have a dairy goat who is raising twin bucklings right now. I milk her every few days when I need the extra milk. And I expect her to cooperate. But, I guess that might be ridiculous too.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by sammyd

I have lived in the dairy state for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone leaving a calf on a cow and trying to get milk from it until I started hanging out here.

Yes, get serious about milking. I really could care less what your personal situation is, I've seen pregnant women taking care of 40 cows and 10 other kids, driving school bus and doing field work milk every cow twice a day.
Milking a cow once every other day and expecting her to co-operate is ridiculous.

Well I'm sure glad you straightened her out.... I bet she didn't know how lazy and not up to your standards she was!

To the op, try letting the calf suck on one of the lower producing quarters while the milker is on the other 3 and see what happens. You'll have to plug that inflation. I've never had one hold back when I've done that. Since I haven't wanted to be "serious about milking" for years, leaving the calves with the cows has really helped me out

[PA Katahdins]

I agree with sammyd, I personally believe milking every other day screamsssss for mastitis. I help milk 150 cows twice a day, and there isn't a cow we ever leave go for a milking let alone 4, calves or no calves on them. Why not just pull the calves and bucket feed them? Hardly takes any time at all to feed them that way and then you will be looking them over twice daily up close instead of once every other.

[matt_man]

I agree with parts of what you are saying sammyd, not all.

If the health of the cow is not affected, then I don't see the problem with the situation itself. There isn't really anything in her power she can do aside from pulling the calf and making more work for herself or getting a different cow who has a history of sharemilking and it working out.

When it comes to the animals health, I think that it does the animal a great disservice, and even harm, to just not milk because it isn't convenient for you and you want to conform the animal to your ideals without any regard for what is really best for the animal. I am sure there have been plenty of times in each of ours (those of us slave to a milk cow) lives where we would just like to skip it for tonight.

The week before my now 4yo was born my father was killed in a car accident. 3 days after his funeral my large family (he had 12 brothers and sisters) that I had been playing host to while taking care of my hysterical mother and sister went home. My husband and 4 other children went to church while I took care of milking my cow who had come down with mastitis due to the crazy week and out of our routine milking schedule and we were adding extra milkings. Labor started while they were gone (I wasn't due for 4 more weeks), I had no way to contact him, but I milked my cow...because it was important to her health and important enough to me to make sure she was taken care of because she takes such good care of our family as well. I figured I had time anyway.

I think that most of us would do whatever is necessary for the animal's health, which isn't in question here. There are many different styles of dairy management and no one way is the right way and not everyone's situations are the same. There isn't some perfect model that we all should follow. We need to all learn to adapt, even away from our own ideals, at different times and just do what is best for our own situations and the health of the animal.

[haypoint]

There needs to be some way to identify the OP as to which group they are in. There seems to be one group that posts looking for answers and are willing to accept the advice and re-examine their actions that led to the problem.
However, there are an equal number of posters that display their problems here so people can respond with sympathy and/or condolences.

Let's call those in the first group: Motivated, Answers Needed. But those that don't intend to change, but seek the comfort of a kind ear, Wishing Only, Mean Answers Not Needed.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by haypoint

There needs to be some way to identify the OP as to which group they are in. There seems to be one group that posts looking for answers and are willing to accept the advice and re-examine their actions that led to the problem.
However, there are an equal number of posters that display their problems here so people can respond with sympathy and/or condolences.

Let's call those in the first group: Motivated, Answers Needed. But those that don't intend to change, but seek the comfort of a kind ear, Wishing Only, Mean Answers Not Needed.

Mean answers are never needed. Ever hear that saying about you can get away with saying just about anything to anyone it just depends on how you say it? You can be frank and honest and helpful without being nasty.