Help needed with cow handling - long

lonelyfarmgirl · #1 03/22/12, 05:08 PM

Ok, I have this heifer that is just 2 years old. Her ma died giving birth, so she was hand raised from the first drop. She's always been in with a couple other calves and my dairy goats. I can do pretty much whatever to her. I can sit on her. Safe to say, she's super tame. She's always been 'sort of' lead broke, but not really.

A few days ago, she suddenly decided she would lean on the fence until she bent the post, and simply walk over. Great. Took me forever to catch her the first time, due to the stupid dog. I was so mad.
Second time, caught her no problem.
Well, the second time, when I put the halter on her to walk (I mean drag) her back to the pen, she suddenly decided she would lead walk as if she was an old pro. I tied her to the fence post and left her there. Next day, I let her loose, and within half an hour, she was over the fence again.

Soooooo, ever since then, I've kept her tied. I move her several times a day to different locations, so she stays clean and doesn't get too bored. Each time, she walked behind me as if she was perfectly trained. A couple times, she was a little close for comfort, since she has dairy style horns, but I whacked her and she backed off.

Today, I decided, well, I'll walk her into the yard so she can have some grass, change of scenery, etc..
We got out to the middle of the yard, and instead of eating the grass, she put her head down and tried to bulldoze me over. I whacked her and she quit. Then she did it again.

At that point, I decided to take her back to the pen. I began walking that direction, and she tried to shove me from behind. So, I choked up on the halter, so her face was beside me, and boy she wasn't having that. She only wanted to shove and then whip with those dairy short horns of hers. She is 1/4 holstein, and seems to be picking up the attitude.

So what do I do? There is only so much man handling a 115 pound person can do to an 800 pound heifer. I tied her back to a post again.

Cheryl aka JM · #2 03/22/12, 05:14 PM

My girls are very respectful when wearing those nifty halters with the chain under the chin. One good yank on that chain and the front end of the cow behaves. I have a "Better be good" stick I pop the backend of the cow with when that end doesn't notice the front end of the cow is paying attention.

ErinP · #3 03/22/12, 05:58 PM

Frankly, where she's a fence-crawler, she'd be gone at my place...
To the rest, I've never had a cow past the bucket-calf/4H stage that was broke to lead.

CIW · #4 03/22/12, 06:30 PM

I tend to agree with Erin. Once they start crawling the fences they go down the road.
If you want to keep her go find a 2"x2" peice of wood about two and a half feet long. When she gets out of line, bop her on the end of the nose.
This kind of thing happens with bottle fed animals in general. They don't know the difference between themselves and humans. And cows play pretty rough. She will have no respect for your well being.
Be careful.

myersfarm · #5 03/22/12, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIW

I tend to agree with Erin. Once they start crawling the fences they go down the road.
If you want to keep her go find a 2"x2" peice of wood about two and a half feet long. When she gets out of line, bop her on the end of the nose.
This kind of thing happens with bottle fed animals in general. They don't know the between them and humans. She will have no respect for your well being.
Be careful.

I HAVE USED A HAMMER HANDLE...with a hole drilled in one end with a little leather shoe lace to hold it on my wrist...so it is in easy reach....to stop the butting

Electric fence will stop the getting out....but that is one of my rules also get out 2 times for no reason you have to live somewere else....busy hwy borders my farm for 3/4 of a mile ...if I leave the gate open that does not count ....a car wreck is always on my mind...could never forgive my self if a person got hurt or killed

springvalley · #6 03/22/12, 06:58 PM

An electric fence wire across the old fence should do the trick with the jumping fences. And a short chunck of broom handle to rap her on the nose along with the chin chain under the halter will do wonders. They will be boss given the chance. > Thanks Marc

lonelyfarmgirl · #7 03/22/12, 07:07 PM

Maybe I should clarify. For one, I don't need fence advice. Electric will fix it. That's not the problem.
Second, obviously I've put a lot of time and effort into raising this animal. Just because she got ants in her pants and decided to walk the fence isn't cause to dump her off. I don't throw away an animal simply because it had a misbehave moment. That would be a waste of two years of my time and effort and a waste of a good animal. If that would be the case, we wouldn't own any animals. Every goat and pig here has escaped at least once. Being in such a hurry to dump something off instead of working to correct the problem is why the pound is so full of good dogs.

The problem is her sudden pushy-ness. I don't know how to stop her from acting that way. She must lead at side, and without trying to hurt someone. I don't believe I've heard of a chain under the chin halter. How exactly does that work?

MO_cows · #8 03/22/12, 07:29 PM

Is she bred? Cycling in females will bring on aggressive behavior sometimes.

The chain under the chin is how about all the leather show halters are set up. Similar to a stud chain with a horse. There is also the nose lead that clips in and out, like is required for most bulls over a certain age at a show. Keep the nose lead slack until you need it, and if you do have to use it, make sure to release it as instantly as possible when you get the correct response.

If you would rather fix all the fence she tears up than run an electric charger, that is your perogative. Personally, I think electric fence teaches a lot of respect for fence and that is what seems to be lacking in your situation - respect.

Some animals can't be "fixed". There is such a thing as killer cows, and your well being is worth a lot more than any darn cow. So you have two years invested in her, just make sure they aren't your last two years, OK?

Waiting Falcon · #9 03/22/12, 07:36 PM

I know no reason , ie, breed show or otherwise that she has to have horns. Dehorn her,
she will probably calm down. But if she finds she can use her horns on you- you are going to get hurt. Or get a small hand held shocker, but make her mind.

ErinP · #10 03/22/12, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Being in such a hurry to dump something off instead of working to correct the problem is why the pound is so full of good dogs

No, we don't bother to "correct the problem" on our place. But then, we don't treat our cattle like pets, either.

lonelyfarmgirl · #11 03/22/12, 10:22 PM

So you are telling me when you are teaching an animal to lead, if they get crabby at you, instead of trying to teach them right, or asking for help if you don't know how, you just dump them all off? If you don't bother correcting a problem, why have them then? Animals aren't robots.

I also never said I treated her as a pet. Teaching a heifer to lead so she is handleable isn't treating her as a pet.

Falcon, she has horns because they grew there. She is two years old. You don't cut horns off a two year old, nor will that correct her pushy behavior. If you were pre-disposed to punching people in the face, and I cut off your arm, would that suddenly change your desire? No. I understand what you are getting at, but not gonna happen.

It's possible, MO that she is cycling. She is the right age. I have her separate from the bulls. Maybe it would solve the problem if I let her get bred? Where can I get a cow halter with one of those chain things? Fleet farm only carries horse halters, and they don't really fit right.

MARYDVM · #12 03/22/12, 10:44 PM

I've taken the horns off a 2 year old (and older) cows for clients to correct exactly the kind of behavior you describe. Once they know they can use those horns to get what they want they become dangerous. When they suddenly lose those weapons they get humble real quick. Your vet can use a nerve block and a tranquilizer to make the procedure less traumatic (for both of you). Without the attitude adjustment that comes with dehorning, you will always be at risk. She's tame enough to have lost all fear of you. She is treating you like another cow, and you aren't big enough or strong enough to convince her you're the boss.

bantams · #13 03/23/12, 12:39 AM

There are a lot of great resources out there for training steers (to become oxen). I think many of the ideas would apply to your heifer as well.
Check out Oxen: A Teamsters Guide.

One thing you will learn from reading the books, however, is that the best way to train a one-ton ox is to start with a day-old, and never allow them to believe that they are bigger or stronger than you. Hopefully she is just going through a rebellious stage and she'll straighten out. I think getting her bred should help to settle her down as well.

Personally, my bovines seem to go through phases of fence-jumping. They'll do it a couple times in a week, then forget about it for many months. Unless the fence is too easy to get through - then they don't ever stop (until I fortify it).

lonelyfarmgirl · #14 03/23/12, 07:22 AM

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I am not concerned at all with the fence jumping. It's a non-issue to me. The pushy behavior is the real problem. Maybe I will try again in a few days. She never really acted that way before. I guess if I let her get bred now, then when I dry off my goats this winter, I'll have fresh cows milk!

farmgirl6 · #15 03/23/12, 07:29 AM

Has anybody tried a squirt gun in the face like you use on a cat? the hose works wonders for making Norman and AB back off when if they get too pushy, but obviously it is not always on, wonder if a squirt gun blast on the muzzle would be effective

Sherry in Iowa · #16 03/23/12, 08:07 AM

I think your cow has established that you and she are of the same species. She is trying to teach YOU that she is the lead cow. Breeding her might settle her down..but if you take her out again and she pulls this..I think it's behavioral instead of hormones.

You have some great advice on how to treat her aggression. I'm not for dehorning her and thinking she will be safe. Bad, bully behavior is just that..doesn't matter if the cow has horns or not. Just remember..a cow can kill ya and not even know it has applied that much aggression to do so. So if you are going to keep her, and if you are going to be the one to change her attitude..be darned careful.

BlackWillowFarm · #17 03/23/12, 08:22 AM

I'm no expert on cow behavior by any means but I can tell you if my cow tried to push me around like that she'd get a good whacking on her nose with a metal rod. Enough to make her bug eyed, back off and think twice about ever doing it again. I never let my cows walk directly behind me when on a lead. I have the sweetest puppy dog cow you could ever ask for, but if I can't see her I don't feel safe.

spinandslide · #18 03/23/12, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIW

I tend to agree with Erin. Once they start crawling the fences they go down the road.
If you want to keep her go find a 2"x2" peice of wood about two and a half feet long. When she gets out of line, bop her on the end of the nose.
This kind of thing happens with bottle fed animals in general. They don't know the difference between themselves and humans. And cows play pretty rough. She will have no respect for your well being.
Be careful.

yep, end of their nose is sensetive..I have no issues doing that to get one's attention.

I have a 4 year old cow who I raised on the bottle..broke her to lead when she was tiny and young..but I still prefer to lead her with a chain under her chin versus just a rope halter..she behaves 95% of the time..but if she really wanted too, she could drag me anywhere..I used a stockpole afew times and if she started to pull or try to rough house, she got a bop.

bottlefed animals, IMO, at the most dangerous to have around unless they've been taught a certain amount of respect. I do like having a halter broke, super friendly cow at times..but I have to remind her also sometimes that she IS alot bigger then me.

Cheryl aka JM · #19 03/23/12, 11:18 AM

My girls wear these
Abetta Cattle Control Halter Cattle Health and Wormers Farm and Feed HorseLoverZ.com
I make them wear them all the time, that way I can just reach out and grab that chain whenever I want (don't reach out and grab that chain in you've just been passing out yummy smelling treats.....it's too close to the cows lips for that!) I know a lot of people will tell you not to leave the halter on all the time, but I do it anyway. When I need to grab that halter I need to grab it NOW not after I go up to the house, retrieve it and then put it on the cow.

My two girls are pets, I bottle raised them and I love them dearly. But I don't make the mistake of confusing them with a dog. They are big and potentially dangerous even on accident. My dog would have to INTEND to hurt me in order to cause any real damage, but a cow can be much more dangerous than that. I was kicked by a cow last year (not one of my cows) ~ she was not being mean, she just wanted me to leave her alone and took a small swipe at me. It hurt but thought I was ok. We are pretty sure I took a stress fracture then, a few weeks later it broke through. I was in incredible pain for weeks, then I had to have two pins put in my hip to hold it together and spent 7 weeks in a wheel chair. These people are not suggesting you dump a pet, they are suggesting you remember your "Pet" is also livestock, she is big and dangerous even on accident....imagine if the cow that kicked me had wanted to hurt me......

bruce2288 · #20 03/23/12, 11:50 AM

Your heifer being in with other calves and goat has undoubted learn the bullying advantage of her horn. You sure can dehorn a 2 year old or an;y age. I have used the surgical tubing castrating bands. Dehorning will reduce her aggression with herd mates which she is treating you as. Feel free to reject this advice.