Is the auction for me?

Reed77 · #1 12/31/11, 06:27 PM

I've been thinking about buying a cow/heifer for a few months now and am still thinking about buying one only IF I move. But I'm wondering if the auction is as bad as everyone says it is. I've only observed 2 livestock auctions (I'm not even completely sure how one works). How can I be sure the animal I purchase isn't diseased?

tinknal · #2 12/31/11, 06:37 PM

I would say a farm dispersal auction or a breeders sale would be OK. As far as a sale barn, no one sells good breeding stock in a sale barn. You would be buying something that another farmer doesn't want anymore.

willow_girl · #3 12/31/11, 06:45 PM

Quote:

no one sells good breeding stock in a sale barn

Hmm, I dunno about that. One of my girls, Twister, was culled from the first dairy I worked for because she wouldn't breed back. She came from some excellent bloodlines; in fact her half-brother (out of the same dam) made it into Select Sires' Young Sires program, where he sired a cow who set a world record for production in a single lactation.

After buying Twist, I dried her off, pastured her for about 2 months to take off some weight, then set her up and bred her myself A.I. (my first attempt, with the help of my boss) and settled her on the first try! She went on to have a bull calf, though, darn her.

My neighbor across the road started his beef herd on the cheap by buying worn-out dairy cows and turning them out with Angus bulls. Each succeeding generation looked more "beefy."

I'm unclear from his(?) post whether the OP wants to start a beef or dairy operation. If you're looking for a dairy cow, I'd also recommend a herd dispersal or dairy sale as opposed to the slaughter auction. Most cows being sold for slaughter probably have something wrong with them, as in Twist's case, so you'd really be rolling the dice. Be wary of any very fat (probably sterile) or very thin (probably Johne's) cows.

You may have better luck approaching some local dairy farmers and asking if they have a low-production or three-teat cow (preferably one who already is pregnant) that they'd be willing to part with.

sammyd · #4 12/31/11, 10:14 PM

we have plenty of good replacement sales through the sales barns around here. You just have to pay attention to what day you go

haypoint · #5 12/31/11, 10:18 PM

Around here, nearly everything is sold through an auction. That is the market.

Your concern shouldn't be buying at auction, you should be conserned that you are in the market for something you cannot judge what you are getting. Shouldn't be hard to find a farming neighbor that can "judge" a cow for you.

Without any basic knowledge of what to look for, you could have problems no matter if you buy off the farm or at an auction. Education isn't free, so offer to pay someone to help you.

tinknal · #6 12/31/11, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Hmm, I dunno about that. One of my girls, Twister, was culled from the first dairy I worked for because she wouldn't breed back. She came from some excellent bloodlines; in fact her half-brother (out of the same dam) made it into Select Sires' Young Sires program, where he sired a cow who set a world record for production in a single lactation.

After buying Twist, I dried her off, pastured her for about 2 months to take off some weight, then set her up and bred her myself A.I. (my first attempt, with the help of my boss) and settled her on the first try! She went on to have a bull calf, though, darn her.

My neighbor across the road started his beef herd on the cheap by buying worn-out dairy cows and turning them out with Angus bulls. Each succeeding generation looked more "beefy."

I'm unclear from his(?) post whether the OP wants to start a beef or dairy operation. If you're looking for a dairy cow, I'd also recommend a herd dispersal or dairy sale as opposed to the slaughter auction. Most cows being sold for slaughter probably have something wrong with them, as in Twist's case, so you'd really be rolling the dice. Be wary of any very fat (probably sterile) or very thin (probably Johne's) cows.

You may have better luck approaching some local dairy farmers and asking if they have a low-production or three-teat cow (preferably one who already is pregnant) that they'd be willing to part with.

This really doesn't disprove my assertion. You knew the history of this cow when you bought her. Would you have bought her in a sale ring?

Yes, you can get lucky, but you can just as easily be sold down the river. I posted my response as I would to someone inexperienced with cattle. an experienced person wouldn't need this advise, or have even asked the question in the first place.

willow_girl · #7 12/31/11, 11:18 PM

Quote:

This really doesn't disprove my assertion. You knew the history of this cow when you bought her. Would you have bought her in a sale ring?

I believe I went on to say that buying her without knowing her history would have been rolling the dice. OTOH, we don't know if the OP is interested in beef or dairy ... my neighbor back home did just fine using dairy culls to start his beef herd. The fact a cow has a high cell count or recurring mastitis may not be an issue under those circumstances.

tinknal · #8 12/31/11, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

I believe I went on to say that buying her without knowing her history would have been rolling the dice. OTOH, we don't know if the OP is interested in beef or dairy ... my neighbor back home did just fine using dairy culls to start his beef herd. The fact a cow has a high cell count or recurring mastitis may not be an issue under those circumstances.

Hey sweetie, I like you, I really do. I was addressing the OP as someone who is not as experienced with cattle as you and I. Yes. I've known folks who made a dang good living buying and selling sale barn cattle. I just think that for someone just starting out with cattle that there are great pitfalls in starting out with sale barn cattle.

Callieslamb · #9 01/01/12, 09:51 AM

I think what they are saying is don't expect to get a good milk cow out of a sale barn when it's the day for the cull cows to be sold. Call the sale barn and see what sales they have coming up - they can tell you the best days to find a milk cow over a pile of hamburger.

My dad sold his entire dairy herd at a sale barn and they were a darn fine herd. People came from 100's of miles since he had been improving his herd with AI bulls for 30 years. If you attend a sale like this, you will be paying top price for a cow.

MO_cows · #10 01/01/12, 11:36 AM

The sale barn is not for the inexperienced. Granted, some good animals that are simply excess go thru there, but it is also where everyone brings their problems and unloads them. Can you tell the difference with a brief observation??

willow_girl · #11 01/01/12, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Hey sweetie, I like you, I really do. I was addressing the OP as someone who is not as experienced with cattle as you and I. Yes. I've known folks who made a dang good living buying and selling sale barn cattle. I just think that for someone just starting out with cattle that there are great pitfalls in starting out with sale barn cattle.

I like you too, Tink, and I think we basically are in agreement here.

Welshmom · #12 01/04/12, 08:19 PM

In my limited experience, buying beef calves/feeders at a sale barn -they ALL got pneumonia, and I had to treat them with antibiotics or I would have lost them. There are lots of bugs in those barns, cattle often spend the night before you buy them, they are stressed and then mingled with other cattle from other farms. Recipie for disease.

I will sell at a barn if I have to, but I buy direct from the farm only any more.

Check Craigslist or look up cattle haulers in your area. If you tell them what you are looking for, they will often know the right place to send you, and you can learn a lot more about your prospective investment before you buy.

haypoint · #13 01/04/12, 09:33 PM

In Michigan there are several huge daries that milk way over 1000 cows. They own just the barn and a few acres. They contract for all the feed and pay for a place to pump their manure. They buy "soon to freshen" heifers and all calves go to auction.

Can you buy good healthy calves at auction, sure you can. Can you buy sick calves from a beautiful small farm, yes you can.

haypoint · #14 01/04/12, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshmom

In my limited experience, buying beef calves/feeders at a sale barn -they ALL got pneumonia, and I had to treat them with antibiotics or I would have lost them. There are lots of bugs in those barns, cattle often spend the night before you buy them, they are stressed and then mingled with other cattle from other farms. Recipie for disease.

I will sell at a barn if I have to, but I buy direct from the farm only any more.

Check Craigslist or look up cattle haulers in your area. If you tell them what you are looking for, they will often know the right place to send you, and you can learn a lot more about your prospective investment before you buy.

I think it was a Craigslist ad where someone on this site bought their free martian un-breedable heifers. Responding to craigslist might get you healthy calves. But there are some scammers out there, buying from auction and selling as if they are straight off the farm.

If you aren't sure where to buy your calves, you aren't likely able to spot a problem or judge a conformation defect. Get someone that knows cattle to help you.

olivehill · #15 01/04/12, 10:09 PM

The bottom line is, with any livestock, that you need to know what you're looking for and at before you buy. And that goes regardless for the place you decide to make your purchases. You can get taken for a ride at the sale barn, at a herd dispersal auction, via Craigslist, and at a private farm. You can also make good purchases and get yourself some decent stock through all of those avenues. Each poses its unique combination of pros and cons; risks and benefits. But if you go into any not knowing what you're doing you're more likely to have a bad experience than if you had gone in with eyes wide open and knowledgeable about what you're looking at. If you don't know what you're doing, take a knowledgeable friend -- and that, too, goes for regardless of where you buy.

Mare Owner · #16 01/04/12, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed77

But I'm wondering if the auction is as bad as everyone says it is.

The auction CAN be as bad as everyone says it is, that is where the stories come from, real experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed77

I've only observed 2 livestock auctions (I'm not even completely sure how one works).

This is a HUGE problem and one you can remedy whether or not you have a place to bring a cow home. GO TO AS MANY AUCTIONS AS YOU CAN. Watch, listen, and learn. Even better, bring someone with you who knows the auction scene. You need to understand how they work before you buy so you don't overpay or end up not getting the animal you thought you were the high bidder for.

If you don't have a friend who's knowledgeable to bring with you, find someone at the auction to chat with. If you start going to a few, you should be able to find a nice friendly sort who will answer questions. If what looks like a nice cow goes through and seems CHEAP and you couldn't see why it went for so cheap, ask your new friend, there was a reason, and you just didn't see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed77

How can I be sure the animal I purchase isn't diseased?

Bottom line is you can't be sure. You can avoid the obviously sick/lame animals if you know what you're looking at, but anything you bring home (from anywhere, not just auctions) could be bringing disease to your place, or get sick once you get it home because it's not used to the "bugs" on your place. Buy smart and then quarantine the new animal(s).

I think auctions are great, and everyone should be familar with them if you own livestock. Know where they are, how they work, who runs them and what sells best where/when. If you see some consistently good animals you can find out who's selling them and try buying direct from the farm. You can find other producers near you that you didn't know were even there just by talking with other folks or listening to who they announce is selling the animal in the ring.

Around here it's the social event of the evening, especially in winter. Get a soda and a hot dog and shoot the bull with your buds while the cows go through the ring.

I routinely sell most of my calves at auction and I've bought horses and poultry at auctions.

Gregg Alexander · #17 01/05/12, 06:58 AM

You can find some good using cattle at sale barns. Just make sure you look carefully and select for what you want. I have made a living buying short solid cows and spiting the pairs at weaning. In this economy and drought , good cows are going on the market. I see lots of cattle that are just weigh cows , broken udders , bad eyes , over weight , that are sold by HT want to bee's that are way over priced and as BT Barnum said a sucker is born every minute. Stay away from Reg Sales unless you are willing to pay lot's more for the cattle.