Harrow manure piles or not?

[Karin L]

I didn't want to hijack the other stockpile grazing thread, so I thought I'd post this here. I was reading somewhere that a particular rancher who has done mob grazing for quite some time believes that harrowing your pastures is actually detrimental, not helpful. He claims that doing this increases losses "due to volatization and run-off...A well-placed dung pat that is undisturbed is decomposed by the soil life from underneath. This is nutrient cycling in action." (Canadian Cattlemen, Dec. 2011 article, "When the Dung Pat Hits the Fan")

Unfortunately there's no research on whether harrowing pastures is good or not, as this article states: What about Dragging Pastures?

So harrow or no harrow, and what are your opinions on it?

[springvalley]

when I suggested harrowing their pasture, I mean drag harrowing not disc harrow. Different parts of the country call things different things. Drag harrowing only breaks up the manure piles, does nothing to the ground, only bounces along on top. > Thanks Marc

[idigbeets]

I'd say harrow only if you plan to seed something onto pasture, otherwise let nature take its course.

[agmantoo]

Put a current pic of a paddock/pasture taken within the last 3 days on here of an area that has not had the manure dragged nor any commercial fertilizer and I will go take a pic of my paddocks. We will compare and I will IMO show first hand the benefits I get. PS...I do not systematically worm the entire herd either. There is no need as the parasites have no place to thrive.

[idigbeets]

As usual two different opinions

[Brooks WV]

Would say that harrowing would break up the manure and allow it to break down faster due to more surface area in contact with the elements. Much like small chunks of butter melting faster than one big lump. Even slight scarification of the soil (by the spring tooth harrow) would be beneficial as it will allow faster absorbtion of the nutrients in the manure.

I chose to drag mine as it most closely equates to using a manure spreader. With my manure that comes from the barn, I put it in a pile in the garden to compost. I think its 140* F in the middle right now.

[SCRancher]

agmantoo - what is your "ideal" timeframe for dragging? Is it daily after every move or is it weekly, monthly, 2-3 times per year etc...

My assumption would be daily after every move but I'm not sure that assumption is accurate.

Thanks!

[Karin L]

Hey Marc, I was referring to the drag harrowing.

[agmantoo]

SCRancher

My timing will vary as to when I drag the manure. My first consideration is to NOT compact the soil. Therefore, like now when it is wet I have to avoid spreading the cow patties. However, I will attend to the task as soon as the paddocks dry enough. I usually drag when I have as much as 6 or 8 acres to cover. I don't want to get too far behind yet I want enough area to justify taking the small tractor out. Some things are difficult to document but simple in practice. I do a lot of reading and often my practices are in conflict with what the experts recommend. However I am the one in the manure and the one that is responsible for the herd and for the sustainability of the farm. Experience and common reason are an excellent resource to draw from. Not long back I saw one of the "experts" boasting regarding force feeding cockleburr. Cockleburr is regarded as toxic weed by others.

[agmantoo]

Here is a pic I took yesterday of the area I grazed the month of November. What do you think of the recovery during December to date? I plan to feed it again in late February/early March! I expect to feed no hay for the Winter.


This is how it appeared after I finished dragging it in early December

[SCRancher]

Man - if my pastures recovered that much during that time frame then I wouldn't have had to give my cows hay either! One day once the fertility builds up - Where I have left pats to decompose in places I do get recovery like that but it's a few spots in a vast field not even growth like that.

Keep at it Agmantoo your an inspiration!

[Callieslamb]

Great looking pastures, Agmantoo.

I think a flock of chickens would do the job and you wouldn't have to worry dragging or harrowing the paddies. Isn't that part of what Joe Saladin does - pastures the chooks after the cows?

[genebo]

Muscovy ducks do a great job on manure piles and will range farther than chickens will.

Muscovies working on a manure pile:



A pile after Muscovies worked it over:



You need about 2 muscovies per cow.

[agmantoo]

A flock of any domestic poultry would IMO only be coyote bait. 200 ducks would be more expensive that using the tractor and would only last for weeks until they were exterminated. I have killed 10 coyotes off the place and only shoot them while deer hunting. I doubt that the poultry would be manageable regardless, this is rough rolling hills. Attending to the birds would be more time and work than the cattle

[genebo]

Muscovy ducks can take care of themselves. They roost in trees and reproduce quite well. All you have to provide is a source of drinking water. They are the best tasting ducks and are the variety served in fancy restaurants. I make a bit of money selling ducklings and ducks every year. I bought 6 ducks to get started 8 years ago and bought 3 more a couple of years later to add a different color.

I'd much rather sit on the porch and watch my ducks work than sit on a tractor seat pulling a harrow. Plus I'd much rather eat a duck than a harrow. Harrows cost about $600 to buy. Ducks bring about $20 each when you sell them. Anybody here an economics expert?

I'm really into labor saving methods. I run my place by myself. I've never pulled a harrow over my pastures and one of the most noteworthy things about them is the lack of visible manure piles. Combined with the goats, the ducks totally eliminate the tall tufts of grass that are left uneaten around manure piles, by scattering the manure.

That's accomplished without an intensive rotation plan, which forces the cattle to eat everything, even the stuff they might not like. This way, they're free to eat the best grasses and let the goats clean up the remainder.

It's sort of like the farmer who grows wheat and soy beans on the same piece of land, except I grow cattle, goats, ducks and chickens all at the same time, on the same pastures. I don't have enough land to make out raising cattle alone.

There's another benefit to the ducks, too: in searching through the manure piles, the ducks eat the worm eggs that would otherwise come back to infect the cattle and goats. I don't routinely use wormers on my stock. The last time a goat got sick I had her tested and she had a zero fecal egg count for worms. Way to go, ducks!

[DJ in WA]

It does seem like most farming methods depend on cheap energy to burn.

The only way to properly determine the benefit would be a controlled study - randomly select in the same spot, strips of land that are harrowed and not harrowed, and compare.

Genebo, you can't see worm eggs in manure because they are microscopic. I would say the ducks help by disbursing the manure, as worm eggs don't like drying and sunshine.

[genebo]

DJ,

I think you are right, that we can't see worm eggs. The ducks do spread out the piles so that the worm eggs dry out. They also ingest some of the manure, passing it through their system. The worm eggs don't survive this. An additional benefit is that the scattered and dried manure piles are not a good place for fly larvae to hatch. When the ducks are plentiful and working, the flies are greatly reduced.

You should see the cattle cudding, with the ducks around them catching flies. I've seen my bull stretch his neck so a duck could reach a horse fly that was bothering him. It's comical to watch.

Goats are another way to help reduce the worm load on your pasture, but we were talking about dispersing piles, and goats don't help that. They will eat all around the piles, so you don't have the tall clumps surrounding each pile. Makes it look neater.

[G. Seddon]

Genebo, do your ducks eat the HORSE FLIES (what I call the big bomber flies)? I have found nothing keeps them off the cows.

[genebo]

They do eat the horse flies. They don't get enough of them, though. New horse flies come in all the time. I read that a horse fly will travel up to a mile, looking for it's prey.

I used to have a video of a duckling jumping to pick a horse fly off of a cow, but I can't find it.

The best method I ever saw for controling biting flies is the Epps trap:

YouTube

A neighbor of mine bought one and I watched it work, trapping many, many flies. He made a homemade version that worked as well.

Fly predators don't work on biting flies, either. They are mainly for face flies and horn flies.