Looking to get some feeder calves - have some questions

[CK25Hulk]

Hello,

I'm looking to transition from goats/pigs/chickens from my last few years and start raising 2-3 feeder calves early next year. Due to my limited amount of acres I plan to rotate them through - total fenced is about 6.5; I'm thinking small such as miniature, dexter, lowline, etc and for other reasons I don't have chutes and headgates for full size cattle. I have buildings/shelter/fencing already in place and more round bales then I know what to do with. I've been trying to reach out to local cattle farmers to see if I can provide free muscle (grunt work) in exchange to ask questions and get exposure with the animals to see if this is something I want to give a go here in a few months.. Unfortunately I haven't had much luck in finding a farm that fits in with my schedule of availability. I do see plenty of those craiglist ads for calves for sale; and I would prefer to stay away from the local sale barn if possible.

Primarily I'm looking for something to raise 8-10 months and then process (not looking to cary anything over winter-2012/13)., I'm also not looking for breeding stock nor am I looking to pay prices for breeding stock feeder calves. Nor am I looking for what breed is going is going to produce the most amount of meat. I'll definitely forgo a higher return on larger beef cow for a smaller freindlier workable breed. I have a "day job" that from 7-6 I'm away from the our small farm; so the animals to a certain extent need to be self sufficient for several hours out of the day. I've read several books over the last few months looking to get up to speed and for years now I've wondered over to this cattle discussion group looking to see the day to day issues you guys deal with.

The main question is how many months old on average would you is to be suggested to buy a feeder calf that is already on feed/grain/grass and doesn't rely on it's mothers milk or milk replacement.

In addition as a second part to this, can you guys give me some cost estimates for what I would/should pay for a feeder calf. I've looked at the market reports the last few weeks from the local sale barn so am I to assume those are fair prices if purchased directly from a farm?

Thanks,

-sean

[agmantoo]

CK25Hulk

I have done in the past a similar project as you mentioned but on a larger scale. IMO you need to venture on up the scale as to the initial purchase size. My thoughts would be to find several calves, not entirely beef breed, slightly before Winter breaks in your area. Once green grass starts popping up so will the price. If you will contact an order buyer at a nearby sale barn and for a fee arrange for the buyer to get you 3 calves as previously mentioned that came through a rough Winter on the thin side. You can worm them and feed some grain and good hay for a brief period and they should have some great compensatory gain and then put them on rotationally fed grass for the Summer. Their gain on an established frame will surprise you and the cost of gain will be less than trying to take a freshly weaned calf even to a lesser weight. If you have any questions on rotational grazing I suggest you read the sticky thread on the subject at the top of this forum.

[tinknal]

I agree with Agman. If you buy fresh weaned calves you will end up with feeder calves at the end of the summer. Nothing wrong with this as feeder calves bring good money, but if you want beef you would be best off buying thin yearlings. They will be framed up pretty well and do nothing but pack on beef.

[sammyd]

the animals you are looking at will not have their prices reflected on the open market.
You are interested in niche animals and will probably end up paying premium prices because of that.
You're next problem will be with supply. As niche animals their availability is far less than standard beef or dairy animals. Finding 2-3 a year may be a problem if you are utilizing the standard market. Or any market for that matter. In 4 years I have yet to see an ad on Craigs List or in the paper and have never seen any of those types you mentioned for sale at the sales barn. Not even in all the times I've gone to the special small animal sales.

I'm with Agman on the calves vs feeder cattle especially if handling is an issue. I think you may have better luck moving animals that have grown up with you.
6.5 acres for 2-3 just weaned animals should be fine. I have run 4 on 5 or so and normally don't have to feed hay unless it's an unusually dry year.

[Allen W]

Agman has the right answer find a reputable order buyer, and tell him what you want, and let him do the buying. An off colored calf will eat just as good as a black calf.

[PaulNKS]

Our primary farm income is from the sale of calves. We sell at weaning. We have a few hundred acres. I was raised around cattle and have done this most of my adult life.

I would agree that you should find an order buyer if you can find one that will buy just a couple head. You may reconsider your options as far as mini breeds vs. standard. Yes, they may be bigger, but put pencil to paper and you may actually do better, financially, with larger breed, per pound of finished meat.

Check with your extension agent to see what your grazing rates are. It varies greatly by region. Where I was raised, you could put one cow/calf pair on 10 acres. Where I've been the last 20 years, we can graze one cow/calf pair on about 1.5 to 3 acres depending on the soil, types of grass, etc.

The best way to figure it is to calculate your overall weight gain vs cost to get the weight gain and purchase price. You may find that a couple standard calves are much cheaper per pound of beef than a mini. If you have more beef than you can preserve, you can always sell a quarter or a half beef at market rates and pay possibly break even on the cost of your own beef.

As far as no chutes.... I didn't have a squeeze chute for several years. If I had to vaccinate or treat a wound, I would rope the animal and snug it up to a post in the barn lot. It was a pain in the posterior but, it got me by until I could justify the expense for a squeeze chute. If you have a couple calves, have them vaccinated and/or castrated before being delivered. If you do, then you will most likely never need a chute.

Another thing to consider.... if you don't KNOW cattle, don't be your own buyer. I have a neighbor that knew nothing. He bought 5 calves that he was told were weaned. Three of them got sick and were dead within a couple days. The other two became runty. I asked him why he bought such young calves. He said they were weaned. They were 300 pound average. I told him they were not weaned at 300 pounds.... Just one example, but I have seen this so many times. He is a pastor of a large church and was too trusting. Who would have thought a farmer would lie to his pastor? LOL

So, find an order buyer if one will buy just a couple for you. If you can't, find someone trusting and take him to the sale barn with you. The sale barn is a good place to buy calves that are already weaning weight. Cattle are not weaned by age but by weight, usually. Sale barns in this area have vets on staff that will vaccinate, deworm, and castrate for you at a reasonable cost before they leave the barn. Sale barn cattle are usually not problem cattle.

[CK25Hulk]

Hey thanks for the feedback this does help.

agmantoo - when you say "venture on up the scale as to the initial purchase size" - are you referring to a type of breed or an older calf, something around 10-12 months?

I'm really not too hung up on about the breed, I listed the ones above due to my reasons in my original post.. I have seen several mini's for sale in my area on CL now.. lowest price I've seen is around 500 and go up from there. Honestly I'd like to get 3 feeders for 1k or less if possible.

One of the other options that may be on the table is an angus farm down the road from me has about 30 calves about 4-5 months old, of them there is one set of twins, one steer & one I guess free martin. These were smaller of the bunch and was told they would grow slower and never get as big as the others. Not sure if that is a good route to go; since I wonder if the owner/farmer would get much at the sale barn for these. Only downside is they won't let you get close to them and spook easily.

The end result/purpose of these feeder calves is for personal consumption, not to sell and make a profit, possibly sell the other two family or friends.


update - after reading the prior post it appears you guys are really pushing the order-buyer so I'll look into that. I assume I can find them at the sale barn or flyer ads there.

Thanks,

-sean

[PaulNKS]

Someone new to... and inexperienced with cattle should never get any that are too skiddish.

[kycrawler]

if your raising them to put in your own freezer i would buy 4-500 lb started jersey of holstiens , jerseys in that size range her bring about 50-60 cents a lb angus claves that size bring 1.20-150 a lb

So i guess my advise would be to go to the sale barn and buy 2 dairy breed steers in the 500 lb class have the vet work them before you take them home . Turn them out on pasture and start feeding them a little grain once a day that will go a long way to taming them down and get them to come when you call , feed them till first snowfall them butcher them . next year decide if you want to do it again

[oregon woodsmok]

If you want to keep them for less than a year and not over-winter them, then you will have to start with yearlings in the spring.

Mini cattle tend to be too expensive to buy just to eat and I rarely see yearling steers for sale. Maybe your area is different.

If you don't have chutes and head gates, then vaccinate and de-worm your new steer before you let him out of the trailer when you get him home. The pour-on wormer is the easiest way to do it.

Buy cattle that are accustomed to being around people.

The custom butcher comes out and shoots them right where they stand. You don't have to get them back into a trailer.

Just so you know, you might not be able to muscle a full size cow into doing what you want, but you are not going to be able to muscle a mini cow into doing anything it doesn't want to do, either. At 250-300 pounds instead of 1,000 pounds, it still outweighs you and is really strong.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

At 250-300 pounds instead of 1,000 pounds, it still outweighs you and is really strong.

Maybe you, but not me!

[GBov]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

If you want to keep them for less than a year and not over-winter them, then you will have to start with yearlings in the spring.

Mini cattle tend to be too expensive to buy just to eat and I rarely see yearling steers for sale. Maybe your area is different.

If you don't have chutes and head gates, then vaccinate and de-worm your new steer before you let him out of the trailer when you get him home. The pour-on wormer is the easiest way to do it.Buy cattle that are accustomed to being around people.

The custom butcher comes out and shoots them right where they stand. You don't have to get them back into a trailer.

Just so you know, you might not be able to muscle a full size cow into doing what you want, but you are not going to be able to muscle a mini cow into doing anything it doesn't want to do, either. At 250-300 pounds instead of 1,000 pounds, it still outweighs you and is really strong.

Thats GREAT info