calf prices

[rancher1913]

one of my neighbors just sold his calves---pulled from momma and sold the next day, for 1.50 a pound for 600 pounders. if the markets hold I should get at least that for my cross the fence, weaned 30 day calves and I could almost break even this year. hows the markets in the other states

[kycrawler]

here in central indiana he would have been looking more in the 1.10 range for 600 lbers

[Tom in TN]

Rancher,

I sold three black Angus bulls last Thursday in Columbia, TN (lower Middle Tennessee). They were weaned, vaccinated, and dewormed.

I got:

$129.50 per hundred weight for a 485 pound calf

$114.50 per hundred weight for a 575 pound calf

$116.50 per hundred weight for a 615 pound calf

The 485 and the 575 went to the same buyer. The 615 went to someone else.

I've only been selling calves for 12 years but I've never heard of anyone getting $1.50 pound for any size calf.

These prices are up about $.20 per lb. from what they were selling for a year ago, but every one of my input costs has skyrocketed in the past few years. I just bought a ton of 12 lb. cattle feed and paid $280.00 for it. Five years ago it cost $100.00 per ton.

There's no money in commodities, at least, not around here.

Tom in TN

[ramiller5675]

I won't sell our calves until next spring, but the market report for today's sale is at:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/ko_ls750.txt

$1.50/lb. for 500-600 lb. calves seems about average.

[myersfarm]

Feeder Steers: Medium and Large 1 300-400 lbs 156.00-176.00; 400-450 lbs
155.00-172.50, pkg fancy/weaned 177.00; 450-500 lbs 150.00-163.00, fleshy
145.00-147.00; 500-550 lbs 150.00-163.00, fleshy 143.00-146.00; 550-600 lbs
129.00-143.50; 600-650 lbs 137.00-147.00, claves 126.00-135.00; 650-700 lbs
126.50-132.50; 700-750 lbs 129.00-134.50, lot calves 723 lbs 124.00; pkg 776 lbs
134.50; lot 946 lbs 123.00.

500-550 lbs 150.00-163.00 thats the 500 lbers we talking about

here the link to check it
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jc_ls154.txt

[myersfarm]

946 lbs 123.00. now thats talking about taking home a big check

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Tom in TN

There's no money in commodities, at least, not around here.

Sure there is, you just need to remove the expensive inputs and produce that beef on grass.

www.cattle.com has a link where you can see auction prices all over the nation.

[Tom in TN]

Gabriel,

If you're ever down around the Spring Hill / Columbia area, how about giving me a call. I'd love for you to come to my farm and help me figure out how to make some money with my cattle.

I have a business plan and very accurate records of my costs and receipts. It's obvious that I'm doing something very wrong.

Seriously, I'd love to have some different eyes on my operation and ideas for improvement.

I'm a member of the Maury County Farmers Co-Op and the Maury Cattlemen's Association. I seldom get any information from them that help me. I've taken the Beef Quality Assurance course and spoken to the local Extension Agent many times. In virtually every case, they have great ideas for spending large sums of money, but few if any, ideas on how to improve without large infusions of capital.

Maybe my operation is just too small, but there must be some way to improve the margins even if the gross/net is small.

Tom in TN
(near Columbia)

[SCRancher]

Tom,

Have you read the Rotational grazing thread at the top of the thread lists (it's as sticky).

Agmantoo runs a very low input cattle operation; I am still so new at doing this that I am still making mistakes as well as getting equipment etc to run effectively.

However this year I was able to start grazing in the first week of march and I am still grazing and can reasonably expect to graze through mid December. I did add 90 tons of chicken litter this year over my 40 acres of pasture which helped me increase my fertility. This was the first time I have put down fertilizer and I am trying to get to the point where I can rely mostly on clovers and other legumes to supply the Nitrogen.

I will add more clovers this winter frost seeding and I think another shot of fertilizer would really help but I am holding off trying to decide if I really want to spend that $$.
Here is a list of income vs expenses for me this year:

40 acres of pasture 41 acres of mixed woods.
Income: $8,400 from 12 calves
Expenses:
Fly Control: $100
Animal ID: $30
Misc Supplies: $50
Electricity (well pump): $400 (high - had a water leak for most of the year I JUST fixed this week)
Vet Bills: $200 (JUST got a cow with a pinched nerve from re-breeding)
Minerals & Salt: $250
Hay: $750 - $1,250 (30 - 50 4x5 round bales @ $25 per bale)
Clover seed: $1,000
Chicken Litter: $2,300

$8,400 - $5,880 (high side of hay) = 2,520 profit unless.....

In-organic Fertilizer: $4,000 (NOTE: I will probably NOT do this but if I do that is what I expect to pay for 300lb/acre of triple-17 + 100lb acre of 46-0-5.

2,520 - 4,000 = 1,480 loss

I am counting my year from March through Feb to account for winter where I spend the most money.

My fertility is really poor as the pasture was previously used for Cotton and other than chicken litter I spread this year the ground has not had fertilizer on it since prior to 2006 when I purchased it.

I consider this year to be a high expense year due to the chicken litter expense and possible fertilizer expense. The clovers I do have were only put in February of last year so they have not really come into their own and more clovers are needed since I only got a good stand from what I frost seeded.

I am hopeful that next year I won't have to buy clover and if I could move out to my farm and make daily moves instead of my current 5-6 day moves I will better utilize my pastures and have to feed less hay.

I am also hopeful that with the clovers starting to kick in I will have better fertility.

My hopes for next year are: $8,400 income with 6,000 profit

[Tom in TN]

SCRancher,

Thanks for the input. Good points.

Although I'm not nearly as intense on my rotational grazing as Agmantoo is, I have segmented my pastures into four different plots. One of my challenges is that I only have water on one of the plots, so I have to haul water to the water troughs in the other three pastures. It's doable, and I do, but it's a real pain due to the time requirements.

I've thought about building fenced in lanes to the remote areas so the cows could still access the main supply of water, but I haven't attempted that yet.

Tom in TN

BTW - How are you averaging $700.00 per cow at sale? I'm always happy with $550.00 per calf after paying sales commission, yard fee, insurance, and Beef Check Off at the sale barn.

How old/big are your animals when you sell them?

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Tom in TN

Gabriel,

If you're ever down around the Spring Hill / Columbia area, how about giving me a call. I'd love for you to come to my farm and help me figure out how to make some money with my cattle.

Tom, we're not far away from you. Centerville is only 30 min's or so from Columbia.

As I reread what I wrote, I realized it came off sounding like a know it all. That was not my intention at all. I've read a bunch of books and kept up with the rotational grazing thread, but only have this years experience (9 months) in actual practice of MIG. It's made a huge difference in the pasture quality, the fescue has increased from 10%-300% with corresponding reductions in the broom sedge and sericea. My one big mistake was making too much hay and not properly accounting for the slower growth in the fall. Rain came late, regrowth is now very slow, although still occurring. I'll get one more rotation this year. I didn't spread any fertilizer, and only a small amount of clover. The biggest factor to clovers success has been keeping the pasture short enough that it can compete for sunlight.

A few random thoughts: what's your stocking rate? How large are your cattle? Do you buy your hay or make it from your own pastures? How constrained is your time?

If you're ever over here and would like to stop in, you're welcome to! PM me for contact info'.

Edited to add: How to go broke ranching. A tongue in cheek look at what is common practice among ranchers.

[SCRancher]

Originally Posted by Tom in TN

BTW - How are you averaging $700.00 per cow at sale? I'm always happy with $550.00 per calf after paying sales commission, yard fee, insurance, and Beef Check Off at the sale barn.

How old/big are your animals when you sell them?

I sell around 6 months old - calves around 500 - 600 pounds so I'm projecting an average of 550 pounds @ around $1.30 per pound. There is a $10 per calf fee at the sale barn - however - I have PB Black Angus stock and I am working toward seed stock sales for which I hope to get a better return than that but this is only my 2nd calf crop I'm working on.

The sale barn price may be a little too high but last year I was getting 1.17 to 1.20 per pound.

You prompted me to check the latest sale barn data...
Feeder Bulls in that weight range:
500-540 lbs (522) 117.00-127.00
(121.75); 550-595 lbs (564) 111.00-123.00 (118.23)
Feeder Steers in that weight range:
505-545 lbs (523)
117.00-129.00 (125.07); 560-590 lbs (572) 123.00-126.00 (123.99)

So my projections may be a little high but I may keep them a little longer and do some private sales either for PB breeding stock or for consumption.

[ramiller5675]

For what its worth, using SCRancher's expenses, I would say that applying chicken litter AND clover seed AND fertilizer is a little excessive.

If you are going to fertilize, pick one form of fertilization to get a little more bang for your buck. And, before you spend $4000 for fertilizer (or $2300 for chicken litter, etc.), pencil out if you are going to be able to raise an additional 4000 lbs. of beef over the next few years to even break even after paying for that fertilizer (assuming each additional lb. of gain is worth about $1.00).

Most of the weight gained by calves after weaning (in the stocker phase) comes from water and forage. Wean them, then put some pounds on them with hay, stockpiled pasture, and a few cubes. Grow that 500 lb calf into a 600 lb calf and you'll make about $100 more (give or take depending on your expenses).

[SCRancher]

ramiller - I agree that all 3 is excessive however the litter was applied this spring. The clover just prior to spring - but clover does not really contribute N until it starts to have die off and does not really hit it's stride until the 2nd year (this is what I gather from reading).

So clover is a longer term investment - the litter was for short term - my grass was really needing some growth and quality - the summer and fall we had a really bad drought then just as we finally started to get something growing we had an army worm infestation that left me with 40 acres of dirt - the first hard frost killed off the worms but the fescue really didn't come back till March - even then I started grazing sooner than I wanted but it all worked out.

I fed hay from I think it was mid august to the first week of march.

Fast forward to this year and I expect at a minimum I could graze till mid December but I can tell where heavy concentrations of litter and cow dung are and where they are not just looking at my pasture which tells me I still have an N need. Last year's soil test came back with only needing 40 lb of P and K each which is not really much so my true lack is still N.

I think I have already decided not to apply in-organic fertilizer but just invest in more clovers to hit the areas where it did not really take and to add more variety of clovers.

Regarding the 4,000 lb of beef - not sure - right now my stocking rate for the entire 81 acres is 6.2 acres per adult cattle (12 cows, 1 bull). If I take just the 40 acres of pasture I'm at 3 acres per adult cattle. My cows however are larger with each weighing between 1300 and 1600 pounds - so I'm going to say average of 1500 pounds. So rounding up I"m at 20k pounds or 20 Animal Units. Now I'm at 2 acres per AU on pasture and 4 acres per AU total. I need my woods to open up more and support more grazing in the undergrowth which in a year or two the cows should have cleared it out enough with assistance from me here and there to help support more cattle.

Anyway 2 acres per AU for my pasture is not bad and it seems your right I'm not really going to get much better than that with out too much input.

I think I would be better off thickening my stand and establishing more of a uniform clover presence.

Thanks ramiller for making me think more about how good my grazing really was this year - but it could be better - I could get a slightly lower acre per AU and I could graze longer but I won't get either with out better fertility but doing it with out heavy $$ is a slower process.

[NeHomesteader]

Here in Nebraska we sold our steers the 3rd and my husband AI's so they were pretty big (born in February ,March) The 723 lb . steers brought 146.50 and heifers were 648 and brought 1.44. This is the first year that steers have cleared over 1000. We sure could use it and I'm so thankful for it.