Have I made a terrible mistake?

[suzyhomemaker09]

After searching for quite some time for a Dexter that I wanted to have as a milking cow...I came across an interesting deal....a 3 year old cow with a heifer calf for a reasonable amount of money....
The only bad part of this is that the cow has never been milked...she's not really people shy...seems as if she'd warm up well enough but I've absolutely no experience in milking a cow.
Anyone have any advice on how to get her to tolerate being handled and milked?
I don't have her yet...just put a deposit on her and plan on getting her closer to the end of the year.
Have I totally lost my mind?

[Karen in Alabam]

I myself an pretty new to milking cows, and I would be afraid to start out with a cow that was going to be trouble from the start.

I picked up a 10 month old Jersey, who took to practice milking pretty well. A friend recommended touching her with a stick or something, in case she wanted to kick and I didn't get my face kicked in. She actually will let me practice on her as long as she it eating, only thing now is I think she wants to kill me other times. Her horns are coming off tomorrow hopefully. She comes at me out in the pasture--not a full charge or anything, but when I am trying to get her to move through a gate, usually my only weapon is my foot which I stick in her face when I start yelling at her. Not sure if that is proper training for her or not, but so far it kind of works.

So to answer your question as another newbie, your in for trouble.

My older cows are well behaved, my 7 month old that I witnessed her birth is a total brat and will head butt me, but my year old Charolais lately has been coming to my rescue with both these brats, she fends them off for me.

I think cows will push to see how far they can go, and as a newbie with cows in general, I probably don't react the best ways when they do.

Remember you are going to have your face in the side of that cow.

I probably didn't help much, but I am nervous for you.

[gone-a-milkin]

Get yourself set up with a good stanchion.
One that you can lock her head in and that has side rails to keep her from swinging her back half around.

There are tricks with ropes and hobbles you can do if you need to, but chances are that she will be sensible.
The first week is the hardest.

If you are going to be handmilking and you arent used to it...? Yeah.
You have goats though, so I am thinking you will be just fine with her.

My tip is that it is better to get kicked from right up under a cow than it is to be at the very end of a fully extended hoof.

Crowd her in close and give her a good lot of feed in the bucket.
Dont let her bully you and be consistent. Kind but firm.

You wouldnt have bought her if you didnt think you could do it.
I have confidence that you will come to an agreement with her.

Good luck and post pics when she gets there.

[gone-a-milkin]

Karen,

You really need to start carrying a stick when you go in the cow pen.
A nice stout but thin stick about 4 feet long. A fiberglass fence post works good.

The goal is not to beat them with it, but use it as an extension of your 'space'.
As many cows as you have now, you cannot depend on your foot to give you room.
A lady on one foot versus several bratty calves?

If they get too close or swing their heads at you, give them a good sting on the tip of the nose.
This does not make them scared of you. Really, they learn quick that you need the space and they stop short. It is a sign of respect.

I can walk right through the herd with that stick and they never bat an eye, until I lift it up.
Cows pay attention to your intent. Be purposeful and fully claim your right to as much space as you need.

You need to assert yourself with those calves. they are just like children who will take every advantage if you let them.

Be safe with them.

[Sabrina67]

Had an old dairy owner tell me that is my cow gave me trouble to grab the base of her tail, and pull her tail up. Giving pressure. He said the cow would stand still without being tied. He is 76 and has been in the dairy business his whoe life, taking over the famliy dairy which he runs to this day.
Does it work, I have no clue. I don't have a milk cow yet. He swears it does, but...what if it doesn't, and the cow just gets mad because you hurt her tail..Hmmm
Anywho, good luck with your cow Hopefully she will settle down and be a great milker.

[gone-a-milkin]

The tail-jacking trick does work, but then you need two people to get the milking done.


That is a trick best used on squirrelly little heifers with helicopter legs.
You have to be pretty tall and strong to hold the tail up for an entire milking.
If you are under the cow, you need to trust the person holding that tail not to let go even if there is a squirty poo.
<There WILL be one; that is a given.>

BTDT from the tailend and the udderside, both. LOL

[suzyhomemaker09]

Thanks for the encouragement....
The current owner had her in a squeeze chute so I could check on her udder...
Wanted to feel around and try to translate it to what meager goat info I have
She seems to have decent attachment...there was a tiny supernumerary teat on the left hind quarter...but it was so small that I'm not positive it was that and not a bit of scar tissue.

http://www.spdexterfarm.com/#!for-sale-ii

We are planning on getting Ramblin Rose and the heifer calf from Beauty. She has been pastured with the bull from that page and is considered to be bred back.

[linn]

A lot depends on the disposition of the cow. I agree that a good stanchion is needed. Some people even make a kind of milking stand for their cow with rails along the side. It may be unhandy, but at least if the cow kicks you are protected. I seem to remember that someone shared a picture of the milking chute or stand they used for their Dexter. This was several years ago, but if that person is reading this, maybe you could share again.
I would start by getting acquainted with the cow. When she is gentle enough for you to touch and stroke while she is eating, you can then put her in the stanchion. You might even start by trying to milk while the calf is nursing. This is a messy process, but the cow may not kick if her calf is nursing while you milk. This will give you a chance to learn how to milk and your cow will learn that you aren't going to hurt her. You will have to separate the cow and calf, letting the cow in at milking time.

[G. Seddon]

This is a suggestion. If you are new to cattle and milking, see if he will let you take her on trial, or lease, to make sure this is a good match and that you can do this. Important - do you have the facilities to milk her?

Other thoughts:

Has either Rose or Beauty's heifer calf been tested for PHA (no indication of this on ADCA pedigree finder). If not, it's important to know this (and see test results) before you buy.

If you are paying for a bred cow, I would want vet confirmation that she is bred.

Are they chondro carriers? Good info to have for future breeding choices (if carriers, they should be bred to non-carrier bull).

The black bull Samuel is PHA-free, but no info on whether he carries chondro. He has been genotyped, which is good.

The red bull Red Rocket - not genotyped, no PHA info, but he is positive chondro.

If you are going to milk this cow, you will probably want to test her for TB and brucellosis, plus whatever else your vet recommends.

Good luck -- a lot to think about!

[suzyhomemaker09]

Originally Posted by G. Seddon

This is a suggestion. If you are new to cattle and milking, see if he will let you take her on trial, or lease, to make sure this is a good match and that you can do this. Important - do you have the facilities to milk her?

Other thoughts:

Has either Rose or Beauty's heifer calf been tested for PHA (no indication of this on ADCA pedigree finder). If not, it's important to know this (and see test results) before you buy.

If you are paying for a bred cow, I would want vet confirmation that she is bred.

Are they chondro carriers? Good info to have for future breeding choices (if carriers, they should be bred to non-carrier bull).

The black bull Samuel is PHA-free, but no info on whether he carries chondro. He has been genotyped, which is good.

The red bull Red Rocket - not genotyped, no PHA info, but he is positive chondro.

If you are going to milk this cow, you will probably want to test her for TB and brucellosis, plus whatever else your vet recommends.

Good luck -- a lot to think about!

Thanks so much for this input..I emailed the seller and asked about testing...
As far as milking facilities...I really doubt I can train her to jump on my goat's milkstand...so we'll have to see about an alternative.

[linn]

I wasn't suggesting that you use a goat milking stand. You can build a milking stand for a Dexter on the floor. If you prefer to call it a milking stall then so be it.

[suzyhomemaker09]

Originally Posted by G. Seddon

This is a suggestion. If you are new to cattle and milking, see if he will let you take her on trial, or lease, to make sure this is a good match and that you can do this. Important - do you have the facilities to milk her?

Other thoughts:

Has either Rose or Beauty's heifer calf been tested for PHA (no indication of this on ADCA pedigree finder). If not, it's important to know this (and see test results) before you buy.

If you are paying for a bred cow, I would want vet confirmation that she is bred.

Are they chondro carriers? Good info to have for future breeding choices (if carriers, they should be bred to non-carrier bull).

The black bull Samuel is PHA-free, but no info on whether he carries chondro. He has been genotyped, which is good.

The red bull Red Rocket - not genotyped, no PHA info, but he is positive chondro.

If you are going to milk this cow, you will probably want to test her for TB and brucellosis, plus whatever else your vet recommends.

Good luck -- a lot to think about!

Originally Posted by linn

I wasn't suggesting that you use a goat milking stand. You can build a milking stand for a Dexter on the floor. If you prefer to call it a milking stall then so be it.

I know Linn..I was just trying to make light of the situation...
I am really thinking now I made a mistake .

[Vickie44]

Originally Posted by Sabrina67

Had an old dairy owner tell me that is my cow gave me trouble to grab the base of her tail, and pull her tail up. Giving pressure. He said the cow would stand still without being tied. He is 76 and has been in the dairy business his whoe life, taking over the famliy dairy which he runs to this day.
Does it work, I have no clue. I don't have a milk cow yet. He swears it does, but...what if it doesn't, and the cow just gets mad because you hurt her tail..Hmmm
Anywho, good luck with your cow Hopefully she will settle down and be a great milker.

It does work. ~ Vickie

Sorry I missed that someone already answered !

[genebo]

Susiehomemaker09,

There's nothing guaranteed in life. It's impossible to be perfectly safe in everything we do and still enjoy life. I say go for it.

Milking a cow requires a big commitment of your time and effort. You have to build the facilities, buy the equipment, train the cow and then spend some of your time with your face pressed into her side for years to come.

It helps a lot if you like the cow and she tolerates you well. Make sure you two are compatible before you begin.

Then relax and take your time. She has a heifer calf on her, so she's not going to dry up if you don't succeed in milking her right away. She's probably only going to give you milk for 10 months from the date she gave birth to the heifer. If the heifer is 5 months old or older, you probably should be making plans for milking her on her next lactation.

The key word I wrote earlier is TRAIN. You need to train her in her duties as a milk cow. It's not something that they have an instinct for. You need to be a good trainer, repeating things until she learns them. Things like following you to her milking station, putting her head in the stanchion and giving you access to her teats.

She'll have to learn not to be frightened when you drop the milk bucket. She'll have to learn to relax and let her milk down for you. She'll have to learn that there's something good for her to eat every day at the same time. She has to learn to trust you. The list goes on.

It won't happen in a day. It won't happen in a week. When it does happen you can stand proud and be proud of her, too. You will be a team.

So take care of the details, then enjoy the experience. It's just as rewarding to turn a non-milking cow into a trained milker as it is to get your first gallon of fresh milk.

You'll be joining the thousands of people who have done this before you. Some failed, many succeeded, all had something to talk about (brag about?) for years to come.

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by genebo

It won't happen in a day. It won't happen in a week. When it does happen you can stand proud and be proud of her, too. You will be a team.

Well said.

I am currently milking a heifer that I didn't like, as she is a bit flighty. The problem with learning more about cows is you get more picky. Because of her disposition, I planned a couple times to sell her.

But over time, we've warmed up to each other. And despite her skittish nature, she's only made a kicking motion when her teats were sore from bug bites. But never a serious move.

Like my beef breed heifer, many dexters aren't big milkers, so there might not be much pressure on you to get much from her. So take it slow. Start feeding her so she comes to you. Stand at the shoulder and slowly slide your hand along her side underneath and see how she reacts. Good idea from Linn to start while the calf is nursing, and is occupied with food.

When you get to where she'll let you handle her teats, try milking into a quart jar to start.

I milk into a 2 quart jar with cheesecloth held on with a canning ring. Hold the jar between my knees under her. Alot easier to move than a bucket if things get frisky. And I can just swap the cheesecloth for a lid on the jar and throw it in the frig without having to run through a strainer.

I don't use a stanchion, but just halter train and tie in a corner to a hook inside the feeder. Have her alittle hungry and give lots of hay to keep her occupied.

Halter training is good for alot of things, so eventually see if you can get one on her and tie her to a stout post for a few minutes at a time until she stops fighting it and learns to give in to the pressure.

[mozarkian]

Lots of good advice has been posted-- I would add that cows respond best to routine. You will have a quicker, easier get acquainted period if you do the same things at the same time every day.
My girls are all big babies, and like everything in thier world to be just so. In late fall, I move all the water troughs about 150' feet to be closer to the hydrant and they sulk for 3 days over it.

[suzyhomemaker09]

*sighs*
I cancelled the deal for the Dexter...
She was not accustomed to people at all...not really fearful and crazy that way but she was not an animal the owner could even go up and touch....
I'm afraid that the learning curve would be just a bit more than I can handle at this point. She's a really pretty cow though....the calf wasn't hers but was from a different cow ...her not being handled would be the same issue I think...genetics and all with the Dexters seems intimidating in itself.
I guess I should just look for a good Jersey....I should be able to find one already broke to hand milking.

[G. Seddon]

SuzyH, despite conflicting opinions here, I think perhaps you made the best decision for you. I hope the seller understands. And I believe buying a good Dexter is not as easy as it used to be with the testing issues (required or not); there are a number of things to consider beyond whether the cow is user-friendly. In all fairness, other breeds may have their genetic issues as well, but I am not familiar with them.

I wouldn't give up on getting a Dexter though it may be easier to find an already trained Jersey. Starting from scratch with any milking animal will have its challenges.

I am curious if the seller had test results on them though; you can PM me if you'd like.

[nduetime]

I made a "milking stall" for my Jersey from a corner of a stall. Put up a railed gated next to a corner. Feed area in the end she is tied to. I have 2 sets of heavy chains that goes across her back end and the back of her legs to prevent her from backing further than I wish. The side of the gate keeps her right where i want her.

I can milk, vaccinate, or whatever i need to do without the fear of being hurt in anyway. She likes it because this is the ONLY place she gets any grain. We have done everything in this "stall" from vaccinations, AI, hoof trimming, and milking, to simple brushing and scratching while she is eating her grain. I used to gently pull on her teats to check them and get her used to it. Also got her used to being cleaned up and shaved.

I use her name when i go to get her etc and she now comes when she is called. I will now be milking my heifer when she freshens come April and have done all the same things with her. She started out pretty skittish but now does all the above except the actual milking. At this point there is no doubt in my mind that I will be able to hand or machine milk her when the time comes. "The hardest part for me was getting them used to the start up noise of the milking machine."

perserverance...I know you will be able to do this. I started out on goats as well but once we tasted MuellersLane Jersey milk we were sold! Our family milk cow passed away last december. I cannot wait until April!

[CornerstoneAcre]

Originally Posted by gone-a-milkin

The tail-jacking trick does work, but then you need two people to get the milking done.


That is a trick best used on squirrelly little heifers with helicopter legs.
You have to be pretty tall and strong to hold the tail up for an entire milking.

We were at an amish friends a while back and watched the kids milking the cows....they just have a piece of binder twine hanging from a barn beam and just pop her tail thru a loop in it. I'm sure she was a pretty good cow, but the little 8 year old boy milking her seemed comfortable. Just a thought on a way to do it with only one person around....
As far as if you made a mistake...can't help you there. Ive only owned one cow for a week and she just turned 4 months old LOL