Herd Bull

[pointer_hunter]

Well, I finally got out and took a picture of my herd bull Kimber. He's over 3 years old and began breeding when he was 14 months. He's a Beefmaster/Hereford mix. I'd love to hear comments, good or bad. My goal is smaller framed animal that does well on grass alone.
Kimber

EDITED: I changed the link to a public version. If it doesn't work now, I'll have to wait until I get out from behind this firewall so I can post it somewhere else. Sorry for the trouble.

[Gabriel]

I don't do FB, so can't see your pic's. Perhaps you could host them elsewhere as well?

[mamahen]

I do, do facebook - I cannot see the pics. You must change your settings to allow people not friends to see.

[tinknal]

Looks like he will be an easy calver. How big are his calves? Any calving troubles?

[rancher1913]

there's a guy down in southern colorado name of kit pharo or something close to that last name that specializes in smaller frame grass raised angus. i've been looking hard at some of his bulls and like where he's going. i think its pharo cattle company

[pointer_hunter]

Yes, I went to a seminar of his when he came to my area. He has some great ideas. He does have some angus, but they put more focus on the quality of the bull and not the breed. They have a few of everything I believe.

I haven't had any calving problems with this bull. They normally run in the 70-80lb range I believe. I don't actually weigh them, I just make sure they are alive when they hit the ground. I did have an issue with conception rates, but I believe that was my fault on the quality of the hay and protein the cows received. I say that because I had feared the bull wasn't doing his job so we had another proven bull put in with the same results. I have changed my hay source and have been providing loose mineral and protien tubs when needed.

[FEF]

Originally Posted by pointer_hunter

Well, I finally got out and took a picture of my herd bull Kimber. He's over 3 years old and began breeding when he was 14 months. He's a Beefmaster/Hereford mix. I'd love to hear comments, good or bad. My goal is smaller framed animal that does well on grass alone.
Kimber

EDITED: I changed the link to a public version. If it doesn't work now, I'll have to wait until I get out from behind this firewall so I can post it somewhere else. Sorry for the trouble.

Well, you did say good or bad, so here goes:

What are you doing with the calves? What kind of cows are you breeding him to?

If you're selling calves by the pound at the local sale barn, black calves virtually always sell better. There are several reasons: CAB, of course, but there are many other branded beef programs that require a black animal. You might come out ahead because of heterosis, but I doubt it.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams....pe=&acct=lsstd

If you're selling meat direct to consumers, most people prefer marbled beef. Neither Hereford nor Beefmaster is known for marbling. In fact, Certified Hereford Beef (CHB) is built on the Select grade. And Nolan Ryan's Branded Beef, which is based on the Beefmaster (or any Brahman) breed advertises their "lean", but tender beef. They treat the carcass three different times to be sure the meat is tender because Brahman cattle are known to produce tough meat.

If you're retaining ownership through the feedlot on the calves, you'll likely have a big difference in finish age, ADG, back fat, rib eye, etc., in the calves because of your cow herd's "diversity".

Kid Pharo is a very successful salesman. He sells some "Angus" cattle, but apparently doesn't participate in the Angus Herd Improvement Records program. Or, at least, his bulls don't seem to have EPDs. Personally, I wouldn't touch a bull without EPDs....especially an Angus bull.

I enjoyed the pictures, BTW.

[pointer_hunter]

All great points! I breed him back to other hereford/beefmaster cross cows from the same line. I did breed him back to his mother twice and had great calves, but I ended up butchering her because she skipped a season and lost a calf.
I have a decent number of clients that I sell beef to. I only sell burger because it seems to be easier than trying to explain to people that they need to cook grassfed beef differently. The burger is very lean and I don't have to worry about the marbling. I am going to request a few steaks back from the next one I take in just to see how it is, but all I sell is burger and it sells fast. I like it because the only thing they eat is grass/hay/minerals and the protein tub so I don't have to drop a lot of money on grain.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by FEF

Kid Pharo is a very successful salesman. He sells some "Angus" cattle, but apparently doesn't participate in the Angus Herd Improvement Records program. Or, at least, his bulls don't seem to have EPDs. Personally, I wouldn't touch a bull without EPDs....especially an Angus bull.

Here's his list of bulls from which semen is available. He may not have had EPD's in the past, but he does now.

pointer_hunter, I can't help you rate the bull as I don't know enough on that subject. Enjoyed seeing him though. I had a beefmaster cow for 8 years that was a hardy and wonderful mother.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by pointer_hunter

I have a decent number of clients that I sell beef to. I only sell burger because it seems to be easier than trying to explain to people that they need to cook grass fed beef differently.

We always sold it by the half in the past, this coming year I plan to sell by the cut as well. A quick explanation was all it took, along with a recommendation to avoid steaks in general and focus on roasts which are tailor made for the crock pot.

[RW kansas hogs]

Love the way he looks, And the Hampshires look good to.

[MO_cows]

Sorry, don't care for that bull. Probably the photo's don't do him justice but he looks to be lacking hindquarter and muscle/meat overall. But your hogs look just great and your chicken coop very clean and well kept!

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by MO_cows

Sorry, don't care for that bull. Probably the photo's don't do him justice but he looks to be lacking hindquarter and muscle/meat overall. But your hogs look just great and your chicken coop very clean and well kept!

Agree. I would have guessed him to be a dairy bull.

Speaking of Pharo, I just ordered some semen today from Colorado High and Johnny B Good, which are Red Angus, and the Hereford bull, 123.

Smaller frame, calving ease, with good udders, disposition, fleshing ability, etc.

http://www.pharocattle.com/semensource.htm

While black angus pay more in certain markets, I don't like the decreased heat tolerance, which means lost money. Here's a couple articles to that effect:

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2...e/CT1033.shtml
http://vetmed.iastate.edu/vdpam/exte...ss-beef-cattle
http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/c...age.cgi?id=570

Solar radiation is a critical component that can lead to death loss from heat stress. Typically, proportionality more black hided cattle die during heat waves then other hide colors.

At temperatures above 80 degrees Fahrenheit cattle endure physiologic stress trying to deal with their heat load. Although cattle at this temperature are not at risk of dying they will have an increased maintenance requirement to cope with the heat.

Black haired and black hided animals such as the Angus absolutely have to have access to shade in hot weather. These cattle were developed in a cloudy, misty region and do not do well in open, sunny pastures.