Dexter question- what's more available?

[tbishop]

I'm wondering if anyone has any idea what's more available- short-legged heifers or cows or long-legged heifers or cows? Been reading lots and think the answer to this question might help decide on what to look for in a bull.


Tim B.

[genebo]

Long legged cows are easier to find. I have a waiting list for short legged cows.

If you get a short legged bull, you should restrict yourself to only keeping long legged cows.

If you get a long legged bull you can have either type of cow.

I keep a short legged bull because I like him so much better. Small size and gentle nature is what drew me to Dexters in the first place.

I had a long legged bull, but he was too tall for my taste.

[linn]

genebo is right, long-legged cows are more plentiful and easier to find.

[R.Adams]

Whats the size difference in a long legged cow vs a short legged cow? What is the average height on each? Also, is there semen out there for Dexter's to use for AI, and if so, where would I find it?

Thanks.

[genebo]

The average size difference is around 5-6 inches, although your mileage may differ. There are taller and shorter versions of each and the sizes may overlap.

The advice I always give is to go visit before you buy. Nobody should buy a milk cow without meeting her. You're going to have a close relationship with her. First and foremost, get one you like.

There is a list of Dexter bulls with semen available on the ADCA and PDCA web sites. Here is the link to the ADCA site:

http://www.dextercattle.org/AI%20Bulls.htm

My bull, Brenn of Paradise, is listed there. Scroll down and take a look. He's a short legged bull that makes small, easy birthing calves. His genetics are for good beef and moderate milk production.

Some people object to the short height of the shorties for milking, but in photo comparisons between short legged Dexter cows and Jerseys and even Holsteins, the distance between the floor and the teats wasn't very much different.

I've never seen a Dexter step on her own teats, but my neighbor's Jersey stepped on both of her hind teats and ripped them off.

Some people say it's best to build a raised platform to milk on for all cows, to ease your back. Others do without, by leaning into the cows side for support. Whichever way you prefer is the right way.

[tbishop]

So it would be a sound plan to have a short-legged bull and all long-legged cows. I'm assuming there's no problem with the bull servicing them? Then it would be a good plan to keep long legged heifers, sell short-legged heifers, steer and grow out long-legged bull calves, and sell and/or keep short-legged bulls for the future. Let me know what you think.

Another question- does the chondro gene change the structure of the chest beyond shortening the legs? I have a picture of a five-month bull calf who's shoulders seem "out" from the body. Not sure if this is how it looks until the fill in or if there's a different issue with the bull.

Tim B.

[tbishop]

Originally Posted by genebo

http://www.dextercattle.org/AI%20Bulls.htm

My bull, Brenn of Paradise, is listed there. Scroll down and take a look. He's a short legged bull that makes small, easy birthing calves. His genetics are for good beef and moderate milk production.

That's a heck of a bull, Gene.

Tim B.

[genebo]

Tbishop,

The plan you laid out just happens to be almost exactly the plan that I follow here, except that I add A2 milk genes to the picture. I try to keep all A2/A2 Dexters.

The plan will also work with a long legged bull and either short or long legged cows. Of course then you could only get short legged calves from the short legged cows.

Take a look at some of the bull calves that Brenn throws. You really can have good beef at the same time as good milk.

http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/j...adise%20Bulls/

Your other question about the chondro gene changing the structure of the chest: I'm not aware of a definitive scientific study on that subject. There is just anecdotal evidence. To that end, I'll say that the Dexters I keep have bodies that look very much like the best beef cattle. Their heads are noticeably wider than average, but the bodies are typical beef type bodies. The short legs give an illusion of extra width, length and depth of body. Judges at shows look very favorably upon this. Short legged Dexters win more than their share of show ribbons.

I have a good opportunity to gauge this body shape because I have bull calves of both types out of the same sire and dam. Cover the head and legs and you wouldn't be able to tell a short legged one from a long legged one.

Thanks for the compliment. I'll tell Brenn.

[tbishop]

Gives a guy a lot to think about . I'm in school for another 3 years for my Master's Degree. I think I know what I'm going to give myself as a reward for graduating.


Tim B.

[~Tomboy~]

Well here is the other side of the coin in regards to chondro carriers "short leg" and non-carriers "long leg".

http://www.dextercattle.org/genCDChondroarticle.htm

I believe this is the "anecdotal evidence" that was mentioned above. This article is posted on the ADCA website.

If you do decide to breed carrier to non-carrier, please test any potential breeding stock and inform the buyer of the results. If it's for beef, there's no problem.

I would also like to mention that the shorties "can" be predisposed to early arthritic problems. No scientific evidence, just information gleaned from breeders who are extremely knowledgeable both here in the USA, Canada and Europe.

Chondro is a volatile subject with Dexter breeders, it is only my intention
when information is given out the other side of the coin has a chance to interpret what they see and what they have learned.

Thanks,

[cowkeeper]

Why bother with the chondro gene carrying, so called "short-leg" dwarfed animals at all, when you easily find 40-41 inch non dwarf so called "long-leg" breeding stock? Small enough cows for anyone, and staying away from the defective chondro gene you will never need to worry about bulldog (dead) calves and you won't need to test.ck

[tbishop]

From what I've read, it's an issue that's easily managed in the manner I wrote out above. AND you get the specimen you want, rather than the animal others tell you to be satisfied with. And or course you would test and tell your customers the results. As far as the arthritis goes, I'm sure when it becomes prevalent, there will be documented studies done. Thanks for the info!


Tim B.

[tbishop]

From what I've read, it's an issue that's easily managed in the manner I wrote out above. AND you get the specimen you want, rather than the animal others tell you to be satisfied with. And or course you would test and tell your customers the results. As far as the arthritis goes, I'm sure when it becomes prevalent, there will be documented studies done. Thanks for the info!


Tim B.

[~Tomboy~]

The reason there are not a lot of scientific studies done on Dexter cattle is that they are a minor breed.
It's one of the main reasons we have no test for the polled gene within our breed, other breeds such as Angus, Hereford etc do have a test.
No one whats to put in the time and effort for research unless there's money and numbers of animals to make it worthwhile.

[tbishop]

Maybe the people that are concerned about arthritis in chondro-positive dexters should start asking their vets to describe what they are seeing. Then set up a clearinghouse for amassing these anecdotal reports into something consistent instead of the third, fourth, and fifth party "reports" that are all that is currently available. My personal credo requires fact before I act on something.

Tim B.

[~Tomboy~]

Tim,

I would be more than happy to put you in touch with a vet in the UK that raises Dexters, he is the current vet for the Dexter cattle forum in the UK.
He has practical experience along knowledge of what others have experienced.

It is absolutely your right to breed what you want. The information I put out was just to let people know that there were other opinions.

I hope you keep reading and learning about the breed, visit as many breeders as possible and pick their brain, this is the only way you will be happy with your selection. Please keep us posted.

Barb

[tbishop]

I'm a little gun-shy on the chondry debate as I've watched it evolved over the last 8-10 years. I'm fairly well read on the breed and my original question was whether my plan as outlined was viable- I think they bring something extra to the table which makes it worthwhile. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong through experience or research. I'm not really interested in debating the pros and cons of short-legged cows. Everyone's got their opinions- all of them are out there "on the net" already. No sense in re-hashing them.


Tim B.