Agmantoo ??

[gwithrow]

when you separate cows and calves, what do you do with the heifers you may want to keep as replacements? do you return them to the herd? keep them away for awhile and then return them? do you make an effort to keep them from being bred too early? as you know our herd is small, and we are going to pull off all the calves for weaning this week....we will keep them separated, sell a couple and I am planning now what to do with the keepers after that...it is quite dry here, we seem to be in a pocket that has missed out on many storms...so we are taking care with our pastures to not overgraze so it is more difficult to run two groups....

actually I would welcome ideas from others as well...

[agmantoo]

gwithrow

Most folks will be very critical of what I do.

I never separate the calves from their dams other than to pull a load of feeder calves that I think is market ready. I only have one herd as i find it too restricting to try to have individual herds. I cannot give an explanation as to why there is nearly no problem to a too young heifer getting bred. Realize I do not introduce new animals to the herd except when replacing the herd bull. Yes I have had a heifer calving at 22 months but never less than that to my awareness. I want any heifer that weighs 750 lbs bred regardless of age. You cannot make up the lost income from not having a calf born when the cow is 24 months old. However, the cow must retain body condition to where she will heat cycle timely. Depending on what season we are in when a young heifer calves can make it hard on her. With a young heifer calving in Winter, she has to give up some body condition in order to see her calf and herself through till Spring. The stockpiled fescue is not adequate to maintain and still add weight to the heifer while she is also supporting a calf. I enter Fall with all the animals in body condition score of not less than 5. A milk giving heifer can drop to BCS of 4 but that is not all that concerning as she will recover with Spring forage. Compensatory gain is great and IMO natural for most animals in nature. Remember my cattle are not retained for their milk production and I have low birth weight calves. That helps.

[tonyb]

Agmantoo, how do you manage your bulls? Do you keep them separate except for breeding season, or are they with the herd full time?

[SCRancher]

Agmantoo,

On retainer heifers - how do you wean them?

Thanks!

[agmantoo]

tonyb

I run the bull(s) with the herd year round. This spreads the calving and allows me to sell calves multiple times throughout the year. IMO, by selling year round I avoid both the highs and lows and more or less get an average price. I am not smart enough to time to market.

[agmantoo]

SCRancher

As I have stated my cows are not heavy milkers. I want the calves to forage as much as possible. Typically I will see new calves nibbling grass and clover within days of being born. They quickly get into the grazing habit and become less dependent on milk and as they grow the calves nurse less and less to meet their food needs. They tend to wean themselves along with the momma cows ignoring them. The cows seem to concentrate more on the frequent moves from paddock to paddock after the calves are a few months old.

[MO_cows]

Agmantoo - I have seen your photo's and it sure seems that your management is working very well for your herd. But it isn't going to work for everyone. Heifers getting bred too young, yearling calves stealing the colostrum when their dam bags up again for the new calf, etc. Your herd and your management system have evolved together, someone starting out new can't duplicate what you are doing right off the bat.

So I would suggest newbies follow the "best practices" to start with, such as weaning calves for 8 weeks to break them of sucking and dry off the cows. And NOT running heifers with a bull between weaning age and their breeding age/size. As you gain experience and observe your genetics in action, you can adjust. But if YOUR genetics aren't suited to Agmantoo's herd management practices, you could have some big problems.

[bruce2288]

Agmantoo At what age are you selling your calves? Do buyers in your area commonly preg test the heifers they buy?

[agmantoo]

bruce2288
I sell by weight rather than age.
If I have plenty of grass I sell in the 550 lb range.
If grass is in short supply I sell in the 400 plus lb range.
There are cattle persons here that prepare feeder calves for going to feedlots as well as buyers that do there on prep for the calves going onto the feedlots. I have never knowingly had a problem with calves weighing 550 lbs or less being bred.
I do believe that the feedlot folks abort all heifers that they perceive are bred.
If I sell a heifer weighing 750 lbs or more I have them pregnancy tested at the sale barn ($5 fee) and sold as bred heifers as they bring more usually. I also have sound cull cows pregnancy tested. Sometimes there are buyers that will buy an older cow just to get one more calf. It depends on what the market is doing.

[agmantoo]

MO_cows

Originally Posted by agmantoo

gwithrow

Most folks will be very critical of what I do.

I am unaware that I promote what I do regrading the grouping of my herd and how I run the bull(s) year round. In post #2 in reply to gwithrow's question I started off with the above quote.

Though I am more experienced than some here I have always stated that I am more of a grass farmer than a cattle person. I do know that if I had not ventured away from what conventional wisdom deems correct that I would have dropped out of the feeder calf business long ago. I just state what works for me at my location. Never anything otherwise! Over time I have found that what most conventional producers think is not what is for everyone either. Particularly if a person is needing to make a profit with cattle. I have repeated over time to produce what a person's land is able to produce at THEIR location under Their circumstances. I continue to retain that position along with the suggestion that to be as efficient and profitable as possible, a person needs to "think outside the box". I know no conventional feeder calf producers that have the profit marginals available to a low cost rotational grazing producer.

[gone-a-milkin]

agmantoo,

I think you are a heck of a sport to post up your different approach to herd management.
Everyone is in a different situation and free advice is always worth what we pay for it.

Your posts are always educational and I appreciate them.