Holstein vs. Jersey family cow

[Catalytic]

I can get day-old Holstein heifers for pretty cheap from a local organic dairy. I know Holsteins are much larger than Jerseys, can anyone compare the two for me?

How much more will a Holstein eat? How are they with tethering compared to a Jersey? (I will NOT be tethering all the time, but my lawn is the only place I have any grass right now, the rest of my property is wooded, the goats are working on that so I can start seeding some pasture in the spots it will grow)

What about behavior? How much harder is a Holstein to deal with than a Jersey? I know they produce a lot more milk, we can use as much as we can get for the family, chickens, and pigs.

What are the major differences between the two breeds? (I want personal experience or knowledge, I've read Keeping a Family Cow and several other things about the dairy breeds)

If I were to buy a day-old, obviously it would be a bottle baby. How much milk does it require a day? Can it drink goat's milk? How do people feed bottle calves if they don't have another cow or goat to provide the milk? How long until it can be weaned off milk?

[Ronney]

I don't have a problem with Holsteins (we call them Friesians) BUT:

Yes, they are a much bigger cow, produce a lot of milk and therefore need that much more feeding.

If you are in country that tends to be wet and pug up, the Holstein will do much more damage to your land than a Jersey.

They do not have the personality and tractibility of the Jersey - which doesn't mean that they are problematic, it means that they are just, well there!

I have owned both and by far and away the Jersey outstrips the Friesian when it comes to sorting things out. The Jersey will test every gate just to see if it's latched, the Friesian will stand stolidly in front of it waiting for somebody to open it. The Jersey will sneak into the shed and get the lid off the nut bucket, the Friesian won't even have woken up to where the nut bucket is kept. The Jersey can be called home, the Friesian will stand there wondering what all the noise is about. Generalities I know but I've owned some lovely Friesians but at the end of the day they don't have half the brains of their Jersey counterparts.

However, having said that, if you can buy a calf at a good price and hand rear it, there is no reason why you shouldn't get a good, biddable cow out of it. I personally won't buy a day old calf and by law in NZ it is illegal to sell them under 4 days old but that aside, whatever you buy is going to need fed twice a day, 2.5litres of milk each feed, for a minimum of 8 weeks and preferably up to 12 weeks, as well as calf meal. Goat milk, if it is available, will be fine. If not you will have to buy MR (milk replacer).

That's my opinion

Cheers,
Ronnie

[BlackWillowFarm]

I have Jersey's so that's where I'm coming from. My friend kept a Holstein here for a couple weeks. She was NOT nice and kicked the guy in the head more than once during milking. But that was just one cow from a production dairy. I'm sure a bottle raised heifer wouldn't do that.

Jersey's are a great size for a small homestead like yours. You might consider Dexter's too because of the smaller size and lower feed requirements. My three Jerseys range in weight from about 800 to 1000 lbs, while the Holstein easily weighed in at 1400 lbs. A huge difference to me, a 5' 2" woman. I can see over top of my Jerseys, but not the Holstein.

Jersey milk will be creamier with more solids for cheesemaking and butter but the Holstein most likely will give you more milk. Don't discount a good Jersey though. My best producer gives between 8-9 gallons a day on spring grass. In the summer heat I get 6-7 gallons from her.

My cows are very personable, know their names and enjoy being with us. They come when they're called in for milking, each by name and one at a time. Yes, they'll figure out if you forgot to latch the barn door.

Day old bottle calves (Jersey) take a gallon to gallon and a half of milk per day, split between two or three feedings. It's easy to want to give them more because they always act like they're starving, but giving in to them will only cause you problems that might lead to their death so keep your will strong and only give them the small amount. By the time they're a month old they'll be at two gallons a day. After 6 weeks, I start offering them as much as three to four gallons a day. I wean later than most because I have extra milk and the calves really grow best when they get real milk. A local dairy here weans at 55 days, I wean between 6 and 7 months.

I personally wouldn't buy a day old calf. I've read/heard that 21 days is kind of a magic number as far as getting the calf through the uncertain period of it's life. If you're pretty sure you want the Holstein calf, ask them if they would keep it for three weeks for you. Of course you would have to pay more for her, but it might save you some heartache if something were to go wrong with such a young calf. One dairy around here charges something like $2.50 a day for each extra day the calf is there. So if you settled on a day old price, then add the extra day charges to that. But maybe you have experience raising bottle calves so a day old calf doesn't intimidate you like it would me.

[springvalley]

I`m sorry but if you have no knowledge of cattle, you don`t need a day old calf. They are hard enough for those of us that raise them all the time. Buy an older calf that is weaned, and learn about them that way. Raise your calf up to be a cow and learn from her, go volunteer at a nice small dairy and soak up information, you need to learn about animals before you get them, so you don`t kill them with kindness. I also don`t like tying animals out on a rope or chain, they can get their legs caught and get messed up pretty bad then your going to have to make hamburger out of your new cow prospect. Get your place ready for a calf or cow long before you get it, I know it is so tempting to get a cute little calf, but they don`t stay little long. Sorry to be so blunt, but not everyone needs a cute cuddly little calf that grows into a big strong spoiled cow. > Marc

[bigbluegrass]

There are some smaller Holstein cows. We had one when I was growing up that was only a little bigger than a Jersey. A very nice cow. See if they have any smaller cows at this place. Let the dairy help you pick a good one. Most farmers are pretty honest.

Differences between the two breeds vary about as greatly as the individuals within the breeds. In general, everything mentioned above is correct. I love my Jerseys and wouldn't go back to milking a Holstein. Holsteins can still make great family milk cows.

I am with the others. I would not recommend to anyone new to cows to get a day old calf. Besides, if you figure up the cost of feed, breeding, shots and so forth for 18 months, you will be surprised (I think) at how affordable some yearlings and even older cows are. I am always surprised that I can sell a week old calf for $200-$300, but a bred 18 month old heifer I have a hard time selling for $600-$700. I will have at least $400 in feed, most of the time it is more like $700 or so. I make a lot better money with no risk selling week old calves, that is for sure.

[Catalytic]

Originally Posted by BlackWillowFarm

Jersey's are a great size for a small homestead like yours. You might consider Dexter's too because of the smaller size and lower feed requirements. My three Jerseys range in weight from about 800 to 1000 lbs, while the Holstein easily weighed in at 1400 lbs. A huge difference to me, a 5' 2" woman. I can see over top of my Jerseys, but not the Holstein.

Jersey milk will be creamier with more solids for cheesemaking and butter but the Holstein most likely will give you more milk. Don't discount a good Jersey though. My best producer gives between 8-9 gallons a day on spring grass. In the summer heat I get 6-7 gallons from her.

I personally wouldn't buy a day old calf. I've read/heard that 21 days is kind of a magic number as far as getting the calf through the uncertain period of it's life. If you're pretty sure you want the Holstein calf, ask them if they would keep it for three weeks for you. Of course you would have to pay more for her, but it might save you some heartache if something were to go wrong with such a young calf. One dairy around here charges something like $2.50 a day for each extra day the calf is there. So if you settled on a day old price, then add the extra day charges to that. But maybe you have experience raising bottle calves so a day old calf doesn't intimidate you like it would me.

The bold may be enough to turn me off Holsteins LOL, as I'm 5'1". Thank you for your thoughts. My whole thing with Holsteins if having easy access to them, Jerseys are harder to find and Dexters even more so. I did think about getting a Holstein heifer, and then trying to find an AI tech in my area and breed her with sexed Dexter semen. Once I got a H/D cross heifer to milking stage, either sell or butcher the Holstein. I'm not sure if the dairy would keep them or not, but I'll ask next time I'm out there, that's a great idea!

Originally Posted by Ronney

If you are in country that tends to be wet and pug up, the Holstein will do much more damage to your land than a Jersey.

Thanks Ronnie, this part of your post is VERY helpful, as where I will eventually "pasture" my cow(s) is prone to being damp. I also appreciate your comparison of their personalities!

Originally Posted by springvalley

I`m sorry but if you have no knowledge of cattle, you don`t need a day old calf. They are hard enough for those of us that raise them all the time. Buy an older calf that is weaned, and learn about them that way. Raise your calf up to be a cow and learn from her, go volunteer at a nice small dairy and soak up information, you need to learn about animals before you get them, so you don`t kill them with kindness. I also don`t like tying animals out on a rope or chain, they can get their legs caught and get messed up pretty bad then your going to have to make hamburger out of your new cow prospect. Get your place ready for a calf or cow long before you get it, I know it is so tempting to get a cute little calf, but they don`t stay little long. Sorry to be so blunt, but not everyone needs a cute cuddly little calf that grows into a big strong spoiled cow. > Marc

Marc, I'm a blunt person, too, and I appreciate it from others. How old would you recommend a calf be for someone new to cows? You're the first person I've seen that gives good reasons not to tether....the homesteading articles and such make it seem like no big deal. A question, what about a run, think similar to a clothesline where the rope/chain would be connected over the cow's head, would that be feasible for a cow, would it be safer than tethering at ground level? I do occasionally tether a goat to clear on a specific area of the yard, but I'm very aware of how much trouble a goat on a tether can get into, and we stay within eyesight of her at all times. I can do that for a cow, too, IF there's a safe way to tether. I can feed 100% bought feed if I need to, but I'd prefer to let the cow graze on grass, too, and the only way that will happen (maybe ever, if I can get pasture to grow where I have woods now) would be either tethering or temporary electric fencing. I do move fencing around for the goats frequently now, and if a 16x16' area would be sufficient for a few hours grazing, I could make a movable pen out of cattle panels for the cow to graze in. Please, be blunt, I'm researching because I want to know lots of opinions and learn. I may not necessarily follow all of them, but I at least have them to make educated decisions about what I'm doing. (For some reason, I keep saying tethering, when in all honesty, I probably would not tether, but use step in posts and electric rope for temporary areas, though the cattle panel pen is easily possible, too, IF it would be sufficient area for any length of time.)

Originally Posted by bigbluegrass

A very nice cow. See if they have any smaller cows at this place. Let the dairy help you pick a good one. Most farmers are pretty honest.

I am with the others. I would not recommend to anyone new to cows to get a day old calf. Besides, if you figure up the cost of feed, breeding, shots and so forth for 18 months, you will be surprised (I think) at how affordable some yearlings and even older cows are. I am always surprised that I can sell a week old calf for $200-$300, but a bred 18 month old heifer I have a hard time selling for $600-$700. I will have at least $400 in feed, most of the time it is more like $700 or so. I make a lot better money with no risk selling week old calves, that is for sure.

Thank you. I do trust the farmer at this dairy, it's a family of 5 and every one of them has been very helpful and are well thought of in the community. They give back a lot to their neighbors, to try to make up for the smell

Maybe I can help you understand why you have a hard time with older cows (and I'd jump on a bred heifer for $600-700 in a HEARTBEAT!). Around here, Jerseys are few and far between, old ones run $1200, maybe fresh, maybe not. Young ones go $1600-2000. Dexters are $2200 plus.

For me, to lay out $1200 all at once is a lot. Hubby and I have a strict rule about savings...we do not touch it for ANYTHING. Right now, our outgo is just shy of our income, it's slowly coming down, but anyway. I realize that $200 calf will easily cost me $1600 in time, but paying $100 a month or whatever is easier than plunking down $1200 all at once. (Please understand, i am not saying we cannot afford to take good care of our animals, we can and we do. We have one credit card we keep empty exclusively for emergency vet bills, just in case we don't have the cash handy...and I used it to death on a cat about 5 years ago, unfortunately all the money in the world couldn't save him )

I also am tempted to go with a young calf because I am tired of animals that are supposedly "tame" but really aren't. I don't seem to have the magic touch in taming critters, so if a calf saw me as mama from the get-go, I feel like it would be easier. On the other hand, I want milk NOW, I'm buying 2-3 gallons a day at the store, not to mention 1-2lbs of cheese a day, butter, ice cream, etc. So, in that respect, finding a good family cow that is easy to handle is obviously my preference, they're just hard to find in my area.

Anyway, i thank you all for your thoughts, I'd decided a while ago that Jersey or a couple of Dexters were my best bet, and it looks like that still stands, but gosh those Holstein calves are so tempting! (Not to worry, I won't be buying one on impulse, hubby has a bullet reserved for my head if I do )

[sammyd]

we have several holsteins that are smaller than some jerseys I know.
They are very gentle and quite personable.
If you buy the animal young and take the time to work with it daily I don't believe the breed will really be much of a factor, I've been kicked by brown ones and black ones.

I wouldn't recommend a day old calf but if you get one buy it off the farm not a sales barn and get some colostrum with it. The anti body affect that the colostrum provides stops after a day or so but the milk is still very rich and provides a lot of nutrition a newborn calf can use.
A bag of good non soy based milk replacer will cost upwards of 60 bucks but with proper care and attention to feeding all you should need to raise the calf is one bag. If you get it started on grain right away.
If you want a decent gentle animal I would recommend tethering her out once she is weaned. Tether during the day and bring her in at night. This way you have 2 chances to teach her how to lead and to work with her on manners. Make sure you tether her in a nice clear area with a good cable with swivels on both ends and keep her water bucket in an old tire so its harder to tip over. Move the tether daily and either run a chicken tractor behind or rake any big plops if they annoy you..
We have tethered animals up to 1200 pounds on the biggest dog cable tie out without any issues. We have stuck the big screws in the ground and put the cable on them, hooked the cable to machinery trees, silos, old tractor tires and rims. They usually pick up on how to stay untangled quickly and unless there is some really big mature burdock they can wind around we haven't had any problems.

[TroutRiver]

There are big holsteins and smaller holsteins. If possible, you should take a look at the cows at this farm that is selling calves. That will give you an idea of the genetics and how big they will get.

Edit to add: If they won't let you look at their cows, I wouldn't buy a calf from them

[Catalytic]

Originally Posted by sammyd

we have several holsteins that are smaller than some jerseys I know.
They are very gentle and quite personable.
If you buy the animal young and take the time to work with it daily I don't believe the breed will really be much of a factor, I've been kicked by brown ones and black ones.

I wouldn't recommend a day old calf but if you get one buy it off the farm not a sales barn and get some colostrum with it. The anti body affect that the colostrum provides stops after a day or so but the milk is still very rich and provides a lot of nutrition a newborn calf can use.
A bag of good non soy based milk replacer will cost upwards of 60 bucks but with proper care and attention to feeding all you should need to raise the calf is one bag. If you get it started on grain right away.
If you want a decent gentle animal I would recommend tethering her out once she is weaned. Tether during the day and bring her in at night. This way you have 2 chances to teach her how to lead and to work with her on manners. Make sure you tether her in a nice clear area with a good cable with swivels on both ends and keep her water bucket in an old tire so its harder to tip over. Move the tether daily and either run a chicken tractor behind or rake any big plops if they annoy you..
We have tethered animals up to 1200 pounds on the biggest dog cable tie out without any issues. We have stuck the big screws in the ground and put the cable on them, hooked the cable to machinery trees, silos, old tractor tires and rims. They usually pick up on how to stay untangled quickly and unless there is some really big mature burdock they can wind around we haven't had any problems.

Thanks for the information! This would definitely be off the farm. I've never been to a livestock sale of any type. I emailed her last night asking about the colostrum, but she hasn't replied yet. (Usually takes her a couple of days to answer, no biggie)

Originally Posted by TroutRiver

There are big holsteins and smaller holsteins. If possible, you should take a look at the cows at this farm that is selling calves. That will give you an idea of the genetics and how big they will get.

Edit to add: If they won't let you look at their cows, I wouldn't buy a calf from them

Oh, I don't even have to ask to see their cows, they're in the pasture all the time, and you can see into the milking area (they use a carousel) from the office where they sell the milk. http://www.workingcowsdairy.com/ is the dairy that has the calves.

[hiddensprings]

I am new to cows this year and did buy two week old calves from a friend of mine that runs a dairy. He has volunteered to be my mentor which is AWESOME since I didn't know a thing about calves. The girls (a Red Holstein and a Jersey/Brown Swiss cross) are doing wonderful. They get goat's milk twice a day and grain and all of the green grass they want. My friend comes over about once a week to check on me and is just down the road if I have a calf emergency. I'm learning alot and enjoying the heck out of it.
I don't plan on keeping both of them......at least that is the plan... :.)

[CarolT]

Catalytic, at least get 3 days of colostrum in any calf you get. How far from a major AL city are you? If this dairy sells heifer calves, do they sell bull calves? Looking for some and they're being hard to find right now

ETA I just saw the link to the dairy Duh!

[Catalytic]

Originally Posted by CarolT

Catalytic, at least get 3 days of colostrum in any calf you get. How far from a major AL city are you? If this dairy sells heifer calves, do they sell bull calves? Looking for some and they're being hard to find right now

ETA I just saw the link to the dairy Duh!

The dairy is about 20 minutes from Dothan. May I PM you?

[francismilker]

I suggest you read the sticky at the top of the cattle page called "sale barn bottle calves" if you're planning on starting with a bottle calf. I'm with Marc, if you've never done it, a costly dairy heifer is a risky venture to get in to. You might try buying an already weined heifer and lesson your risk.

BTW, my pick for a family cow would be a jersey/beef cross. Just the right amount of milk if she milks average and if bred to a beef bull you get a might beefy calf raised on a lot of milk. Just my opionion.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Catalytic~ Carol is asking so she can help me find bull calves~ Carol is my neighbor and helps me with everything here at my place! Carol~ I already checked the drive would be REALLY long one way~ almost down to Florida.

Catalytic~ are you set on getting one from that specific dairy because you are friendly with them? If so I understand, if not~ there is a fellow in Addison Al who advertises jersey and jersey cross heifers pretty often on the Huntsville craigslist. He may be able to work with you on a young heifer as it seems he often has them for sale. Run a search in the hunstville CL for "Jersey" he has an ad back on the 19th for cross heifers that will give you his phone number to call and ask him.

[springvalley]

Catalytic, getting a young calf may be ok after it is weaned or at least a few weeks old, they are out of the critical stage most of the time by then. As far as tethering, I hate it, I have seen alot of animals with bumm legs after being caught in the ropes or chains. Now overhead is better, and some universities use to do this type with draft horse studs during the hay day of horses. I have told a few people about this system if tethering is the only option. And yes any type of over head rope and pulley system will work as long as it doesn`r sag or break, and the rope is only long enough to reach the ground. But please learn all you can before you get an animal, I hope maybe you have some common cattle sence when it comes to caring for them as long as you already have other animals. Any more questions please ask. > Thanks Marc

[JHinCA]

Our first cattle were a steer calf and a Jersey heifer that I tethered out every day. The heifer got very tame and was easy to start milking. The steer was good beef. Tethering worked out ok, but I was home during the day and able to keep an eye on them. I believe that one strand of electric twine, nose high, keeps milk cows in and is easier on everyone than tethering.

[Catalytic]

Originally Posted by francismilker

I suggest you read the sticky at the top of the cattle page called "sale barn bottle calves" if you're planning on starting with a bottle calf. I'm with Marc, if you've never done it, a costly dairy heifer is a risky venture to get in to. You might try buying an already weined heifer and lesson your risk.

BTW, my pick for a family cow would be a jersey/beef cross. Just the right amount of milk if she milks average and if bred to a beef bull you get a might beefy calf raised on a lot of milk. Just my opionion.

I'll definitely read it several times if I end up getting a bottle calf. If I do, it definitely wouldn't be from a sale barn, because I KNOW I don't have the knowledge to know what's normal and what isn't. I trust this dairy, which is the only reason I thought about them, and their babies are fairly cheap (granted, I have no idea what day-old calves sell for, except the ones they have). If money wasn't an object, and they were plentiful around here, I'd get a couple of Dexter heifers and an unrelated Dexter bull. My real plan (like the one I've had since I started seriously wanting a cow a few years ago) is a full Jersey heifer and breed her to a beef cow each year, for exactly what you said, to raise the calf for the freezer, or sell heifer calves and buy a steer to raise for the freezer.

Originally Posted by Cheryl aka JM

Catalytic~ Carol is asking so she can help me find bull calves~ Carol is my neighbor and helps me with everything here at my place! Carol~ I already checked the drive would be REALLY long one way~ almost down to Florida.

Catalytic~ are you set on getting one from that specific dairy because you are friendly with them? If so I understand, if not~ there is a fellow in Addison Al who advertises jersey and jersey cross heifers pretty often on the Huntsville craigslist. He may be able to work with you on a young heifer as it seems he often has them for sale. Run a search in the hunstville CL for "Jersey" he has an ad back on the 19th for cross heifers that will give you his phone number to call and ask him.

Oh no, I'm not set on getting one of this dairy's calves. Biggest appeal is price and how close they are to me. I do not have a trailer to haul critters yet, and I know people haul in the bed of their trucks, but in this heat, I don't see that being a good idea for any distance. I could have one of their calves home in a very short time, and the heat wouldn't be an issue. I will look at your CL and email the guy so I will have a contact for him once I get a trailer if I still haven't found one nearby.

Originally Posted by springvalley

Catalytic, getting a young calf may be ok after it is weaned or at least a few weeks old, they are out of the critical stage most of the time by then. As far as tethering, I hate it, I have seen alot of animals with bumm legs after being caught in the ropes or chains. Now overhead is better, and some universities use to do this type with draft horse studs during the hay day of horses. I have told a few people about this system if tethering is the only option. And yes any type of over head rope and pulley system will work as long as it doesn`r sag or break, and the rope is only long enough to reach the ground. But please learn all you can before you get an animal, I hope maybe you have some common cattle sence when it comes to caring for them as long as you already have other animals. Any more questions please ask. > Thanks Marc

I think I'm convinced Holsteins are too big for me now anyway, but thank you for the age to look for! I don't know if I have any cattle common sense, but if it helps, I'll be practicing on the goats for a while before a cow comes along. I DO have my dad, my uncles, and my tenant who DO know cows, so if I were to get in more trouble than I could find help for online, they are close by, at least. I think i can safely say that I would not be tethering unless I was watching, because I'm a huge fan of electric with my step-in posts, so if cows work well with that, I can do that no problem. (Seriously, I think those are the coolest things ever...and so does one of my goats as she jumps right over it....and then laughed at hubby when he went to chase her, jumping in and out of the area she was supposed to be in...I was sorta raised "country" but hubby is a total city boy, and it is too funny when the animals "get his goat" He's learning, though, he's an awesome man! He was out slaughtering chickens with a YouTube video first thing this morning, before I was even awake )