3 sick Jersey bull calves

[Buddaking]

Hellow all,

I have 3 Jersey bottle calves 10 days old. They were happy & healthy as could be; Drinking water, Eating grain & hay until last night when I bought a bag of what I was told to be MR at my local feed store. It was a product called Whey Permeate powder.
I gave them the first 1.5 qt water to 3/4 lb Whey Permeate powder last night. This morning I gave it to them in the same proportions again & as they finished their bottle's I saw one blow the squirts across my barn. Within a few minutes they were all blowing liquid everywhere.
I thought about it for a few minutes & loaded the feed bag in my truck & went down to my local feed store. When I arrived I was appoligised to & my real bag of MR was loaded in my truck promptly. They had no scour meds so I went to TSC & purchased Sustain III tabs (big blue tabs) & RE-SORB electrolyte suppliment.

Each calf got 1 Sustain III tab. I have also been giving the Resorb at 1 qt every 6 hr.

Is their anything else I can do & dose anyone know the effects of this Whey stuff & if they will make it or are they poisoned & am I spinning my wheels.
Thanks, -Budda-

[Callieslamb]

Sometimes, just changing their food will do this to them. Usually, they bounce back pretty quickly if it's just a diet change. Keep watching them. I am not sure they need 1 qt an hour. I doubt if the whey stuff poisoned them.

[Sherry in Iowa]

"I have 3 Jersey bottle calves 10 days old. They were happy & healthy as could be; Drinking water, Eating grain & hay until last night when I bought a bag of what I was told to be MR at my local feed store."

Sorry..I think I'm confused. They were 10 days old and you didn't list that they were drinking milk..but they were eating hay and grain?

At 10 days old I too think they might be a bit screwed up by the change in diet. Make all changes gradual if you can. Hope they feel better soon.

[Buddaking]

Sorry to confuse everyone.

The calves are 10 days old, Getting milk replacer by bottle 2 X a day @ 8 oz by weight mixed with 1.5 qt water. They were nibbling at free choice grain & hay & drinking water from a bucket. Very healthy & lively till I fed them the mixed up switched bag from the feed store.

The problem is when I bought a bag of MR from the feed store they did not give me MR they messed up & gave me a product called WHEY PERMEATE POWDER on accident. The calved recived 2 feedings before I realized that I got sc***ed by the feed store. I went back & the repidetdly told me how sorry they were for the mix up.

Now they have the worst case of scour I have ever seen. I fear they will not make througt the holiday weekend.

On monday I am going to go speak with the feed store owner because I feel he needs to reinburse me for the cost of the Sustain III tabs & electrolites if they do live (25 dollars each) & if they dont make it I figure everything I have into them (100.00 each)

I hope that clears things up & if anyone has any advice I am all ears as the liquid seems to leave the rear end faster than I can get it down them. 1 is on the tube & the other 2 are being force fed the electrolites.

[Oakshire_Farm]

Take away the water! To much liquid in the diet will not help with scours! Other than that, keep your fingers crossed and keep on with the scour treatment to the FULL course as directed. Don't think they are doing better and miss a last dose.

As a general rule, I do not offer water till calves are over a month old. They get enough from the milk.

[Ronney]

Originally Posted by Oakshire_Farm

Take away the water! To much liquid in the diet will not help with scours! Other than that, keep your fingers crossed and keep on with the scour treatment to the FULL course as directed. Don't think they are doing better and miss a last dose.

As a general rule, I do not offer water till calves are over a month old. They get enough from the milk.

Oakshire, this is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Water should be offered to calves at all times from day one and even more so when they are scouring. The biggest killer of scouring calves isn't the scouring, it's the deydration that goes with it. Never, ever withhold fluids from scouring calves. I have just been through this with an 8 day old bought in calf. She was fed electrolytes 4 times a day and still drank water from the trough.

Bud, buying in calves is always a risky business and people seem to be unaware that the trauma of transport alone is enough to upset them. Add to that a change in food, new environment, new voices and people and you have one stressed out baby animal.

The first thing to do is withdraw milk for the first 24 hours, feed electrolytes and preferably Scourban - now you don't call it Scourban but it's a name that is very similar - I can never remember what it is though Leave out a bucket of clean water and replace it twice a day. Follow the instructions on the Scourban to the letter. You can make your own electrolytes which are as good as what you can buy. Recipe at the end.

After 24 hours start to reintroduce milk but don't go hard out with it. Feed 2 cups of milk in the morning, electrolytes at lunch time and another 2 cups of milk in the evening. And then very gradually increase the amount of milk over the next few days and cut out the electrolytes. You will probably find that they will stop drinking the electrolytes of their own accord.

The sick calf I have has been scouring for a week and is literally skin and bone but today she had 3 feeds of 750mls each and her poohs are soft but not runny and she is showing interest in what is going on around her. It has been a hard slog for both of us.

Electrolyte Recipe:
100grms Glucose
1/2tsp Baking Soda (Bicarbonate of Soda)
1 tsp Salt

Dissolved in 2 litres of boiled water.

That's it and is exactly what you will find in the bought stuff.

Good luck with them, take is slow and easy and I see no reason why they shouldn't make it.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[sammyd]

good lord...take away the water from an animal that is blowing it all out its rear?
You can't be serious....
Clean fresh water should be offered from day one

[shagerman]

here is something i do.. you guys are gonna think i am nuts. but i was told by a older lady who had cattle for better than 40 years. i did try this and it did work. when you mix your mr. mix in 2 cups of flour.. and feed as usuall. for 2 days. it will slow them down pretty fast. it will still be a little soft but you will manage from that easily.

[jeff1981]

Originally Posted by Oakshire_Farm

Take away the water! To much liquid in the diet will not help with scours! Other than that, keep your fingers crossed and keep on with the scour treatment to the FULL course as directed. Don't think they are doing better and miss a last dose.

As a general rule, I do not offer water till calves are over a month old. They get enough from the milk.

Are you insane? how about I keep you away from water for a month? I've been raising calves a long time, as have all my neighbors, and I've never heard anything so absurd. Calves should have free choice water from their first day of life. Period.

[jeff1981]

Originally Posted by Ronney

Oakshire, this is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Water should be offered to calves at all times from day one and even more so when they are scouring. The biggest killer of scouring calves isn't the scouring, it's the deydration that goes with it. Never, ever withhold fluids from scouring calves. I have just been through this with an 8 day old bought in calf. She was fed electrolytes 4 times a day and still drank water from the trough.

Bud, buying in calves is always a risky business and people seem to be unaware that the trauma of transport alone is enough to upset them. Add to that a change in food, new environment, new voices and people and you have one stressed out baby animal.

The first thing to do is withdraw milk for the first 24 hours, feed electrolytes and preferably Scourban - now you don't call it Scourban but it's a name that is very similar - I can never remember what it is though Leave out a bucket of clean water and replace it twice a day. Follow the instructions on the Scourban to the letter. You can make your own electrolytes which are as good as what you can buy. Recipe at the end.

After 24 hours start to reintroduce milk but don't go hard out with it. Feed 2 cups of milk in the morning, electrolytes at lunch time and another 2 cups of milk in the evening. And then very gradually increase the amount of milk over the next few days and cut out the electrolytes. You will probably find that they will stop drinking the electrolytes of their own accord.

The sick calf I have has been scouring for a week and is literally skin and bone but today she had 3 feeds of 750mls each and her poohs are soft but not runny and she is showing interest in what is going on around her. It has been a hard slog for both of us.

Electrolyte Recipe:
100grms Glucose
1/2tsp Baking Soda (Bicarbonate of Soda)
1 tsp Salt

Dissolved in 2 litres of boiled water.

That's it and is exactly what you will find in the bought stuff.

Good luck with them, take is slow and easy and I see no reason why they shouldn't make it.

Cheers,
Ronnie

This is all excellent advice. I believe the product in the US is called ScourGuard (at least the injectable is) but you can get many different types of scour meds. In your situation I would suggest using a scour med in a bolus form... pay close attention to the above post, it's just the thing to do. Kudos to Ronnie for some excellent information.

[Buddaking]

They made it throught the night & took the ele on their own from the bottle.

Thank's to everyone for the advice & a special thanks to Ronny for the ele recipe.

I got the 3 boys ( Larry, Curley & Moe ) at 1 day old from a local dairy farm 45 min away.
They were doing very well for the first 10 - 12 days till the feed mix up.

Am I crazy to think the feed store owner should reinburse me for the Calf Bolus tabs 42.00 USD & the electrolyte solution 38.00 USD ??? They were healty as could be till the mix up & 12 hours later sick as hell.

I just hope they are past the worst of it. Atleast they are standing & walking around their stall again.
Happy Easter, -Budda-

[agmantoo]

Get a pig scour treatment named Spectam Scour Halt and give them a treatment. This is what the vets recommend to the dairies around here. It works!

[Buddaking]

In the future I will use the Scour Halt @ 10 to 15 pumps per calf as I have heard good things about it. All I could get in my small town on a holiday weekend was the Sustain III Calf Bolus tabs. ( large blue 123.8 grain Sulfamethazine tabs) I gave them 1 each & will give another at 72 hours.

Only time will tell. They had the ele this morning & I will give it again at mid afternoon then tonight I will reintroduce 1/2 ration of MR, 4 oz to 3/4 qt warm water. Tomorrow If all is well I may stop the ele & bump the MR to a 3/4 ration in the morning & a full ration in the evening.

On a good note I just went in the barn to collect some eggs & noticed 2 of the 3 were chomping on calf starter topped with Calf Mana & the 3rd had his head in the water bucket.

[DJ in WA]

I'm curious why people give antibiotics when a calf has scours. Do we take antibiotic pills when we have diarrhea? Probably not. But for some reason it's the first thing most calf raising people do.

Antibiotics can kill off the good bacteria, allowing the worse ones to take over, like Salmonella. Not to mention the antibiotic resistance problems the animal production industry is taking heat over, partially justified.

Getting the runs from a diet change does not mean an animal or a human has an infection. Infection can happen as a secondary result, but you don't treat for infection if one doesn't exist.

When ingredients in a milk replacer are not digested and absorbed (poor quality product, or the wrong product, or feeding too much), the ingredients pass down the digestive tract and draw water out of the body - called osmotic diarrhea. This is not an infectious disease.

[springvalley]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

I'm curious why people give antibiotics when a calf has scours. Do we take antibiotic pills when we have diarrhea? Probably not. But for some reason it's the first thing most calf raising people do.

Antibiotics can kill off the good bacteria, allowing the worse ones to take over, like Salmonella. Not to mention the antibiotic resistance problems the animal production industry is taking heat over, partially justified.

Getting the runs from a diet change does not mean an animal or a human has an infection. Infection can happen as a secondary result, but you don't treat for infection if one doesn't exist.

When ingredients in a milk replacer are not digested and absorbed (poor quality product, or the wrong product, or feeding too much), the ingredients pass down the digestive tract and draw water out of the body - called osmotic diarrhea. This is not an infectious disease.

This is very good advice, I`m with ya on this. I do things as organic as I can, and also home remedies if at all possible. I had one the other day had the squirts, mostly from the weather changing all the time. I cut the milk back(Whole raw) by 1/3 put in two raw fresh eggs, and one small package of knox jello. Did this two times and she was back to normal, I hate this up and down weather we are having. As far as getting compensation from the feed store, why not try, they did make the mistake, but so did you, you knew it wasn`t the right stuff either. Could call it a lesson learned, and move on, Everyone makes mistakes. > Thanks Marc

[Oakshire_Farm]

Whoa!!!!!!! I do not give any water for the first month, because EVERY dairy farm in my area does the same! I get my calves from at least 6 dairy farms in the area, my husband worked on a number of dairy farms years ago. NONE OF THEM OFFER WATER FOR THE FIRST MONTH. Some until the calves are weaned. That is just the way I do things, it works for me and the dairy farms around me so I am sticking with it.

Any time I have offered water to early I have found that they jump into it after a milk feed and gorge on it and are scouring soon after.

[topside1]

That's one way to keep the water bill low.....Never heard of such a practice....Guess if it works for you that is all that matters...Topside

[Judith]

At the dairy i used to work for calves got milk only as well. No water until 6 weeks old. Calves rarely had scours, just on weekends when the calf feeder arrived. They always over fed......

[travlnusa]

I haved always had free choice water buckets in the calf hutches. I have changed it up a bit.

After feeding 2 qts of MR, I then refill bottle with warm water and feed that while they are still standing there.

Change in the calves over this past winter was amazing. Starter intake went up. Never did any scours hit as a result. MUCH MUCH more healthy calves.

Started to do this after reading some new research published. Will keep it up unless I find studies telling me to change.