Getting cull cow from dairy - what am I missing?

Mare Owner · #1 04/16/11, 01:13 AM

Talked to a good friend who has a commercial dairy and I might have convinced him to sell me a cull cow. He has one holstein that's not breeding back and has nothing else wrong with her that he mentioned he will likely ship very soon, to be done messing with her. I told him I need one with a good temperament as I plan to milk by hand (which I need to learn how to do!).

He'll have a history on her and give that to me, I know. They feed silage and I can buy some from him to get her transitioned over to something else, or until I decide I just need to keep buying silage...

I have beef cows and never have had dairy cows before. She's in the milking barn right now. How hard is it to back her off on the feed? Will she produce less milk and maintain her weight, or does it depend also on how I milk her too? How do you milk less (to match reduced feed) w/o causing mastitis?

Also, how hard is it to get the cow to accept hand milking when it's always been milked by machine? They hand milk a little out of each teat before hooking up the machine, but that cow is going to know my bumbling hands aren't the machine.

cowkeeper · #2 04/16/11, 05:11 AM

Why would you want to buy a cow that is not breeding back? Are you planning to milk her til she dries off then ship or beef her yourself? ck.

Ronney · #3 04/16/11, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowkeeper

Why would you want to buy a cow that is not breeding back? Are you planning to milk her til she dries off then ship or beef her yourself? ck.

Mare Owner, I think it's us that's missing something. Why would you want to buy a cow that won't breed back? I have no problem with buying ex-dairies and have had several of them in my herd over the years - 3 titters, low production (in commercial dairy terms) but I would never buy something that fails to get into calf. Look around and buy yourself a nice cow either vetted in calf or with a calf at foot.

As to your other question, cows are very adaptable and a machine milked cow will quite happily stand for you to hand milk her. All cows a different so for the first few times she may get a bit upset, and she may also get bored with the length of time your taking and start shifting around but once they get used to the new regime, they make for great cows.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Gregg Alexander · #4 04/16/11, 07:32 AM

She is a cull, don't waste your $ on a cull , unless you are going to eat her.

Shygal · #5 04/16/11, 07:33 AM

If she doesnt breed back, she wont give milk, they don't milk forever off one breeding

tinknal · #6 04/16/11, 08:34 AM

I agree that it would be a bad idea to get a cow that won't breed, but...........

How old is the cow? What condition is she in? How long since her last calf? How many breeding attempts have occurred? Have they attempted to breed via live cover? Can you get her for a low enough price that you can recoup your costs if you need to ship her?

linn · #7 04/16/11, 09:25 AM

Sorry, but it sounds like your friend is trying to unload his problems onto you. Wait until you can find a cow that is healthy and safely in calf.

sammyd · #8 04/16/11, 01:41 PM

milk her till she's done then put her in the freezer.
Don't pay anymore than cull price for her which around here is roughly 70 cent a pound.

Tad · #9 04/16/11, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

If she doesnt breed back, she wont give milk, they don't milk forever off one breeding

We got our testing sheets back the other day we have one cow, Curley tried to breed her 7 times never took. As of last week she has milked just over 1200 days 60,400 lbs and is still giveing 42 lb/day. They can last awhile!

willow_girl · #10 04/16/11, 09:21 PM

1200 days?! I think that's a record!

And yeah, a cow giving even 20 lbs. a day will probably drown the average household in milk.

Keep in mind, though, that her production may drop off when you switch her from silage to, say, hay.

Mare Owner · #11 04/16/11, 11:36 PM

Thanks for all the replies. She's only been AI'd, and I'd live cover her with my beef bull. If she doesn't take, yes I'd butcher her or ship her, and not cry over the loss. He won't charge me a penny more than he'd get from the shipper, (and likely less since he's a good friend and we do a lot of trading).

I honestly don't know her age.

I recently bought two Randall cows, and when they calve, plan to milk at least one and would rather "get the kinks out" before hand as much as I can. I have waited years to get them and invested good money in them. They aren't practice cows, so I need to get to practicing so I'm comfortable when they are ready to freshen.

With the beef prices as they are right now, I'm not willing to invest more than cull price for a starter cow for myself.

So, I'm still wondering this: How hard is it to back her off on the feed? Will she produce less milk and maintain her weight, or does it depend also on how I milk her too? How do you milk less (to match reduced feed) w/o causing mastitis?

Shygal · #12 04/16/11, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tad

We got our testing sheets back the other day we have one cow, Curley tried to breed her 7 times never took. As of last week she has milked just over 1200 days 60,400 lbs and is still giveing 42 lb/day. They can last awhile!

Wow!!!

tinknal · #13 04/17/11, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mare Owner

Thanks for all the replies. She's only been AI'd, and I'd live cover her with my beef bull. If she doesn't take, yes I'd butcher her or ship her, and not cry over the loss. He won't charge me a penny more than he'd get from the shipper, (and likely less since he's a good friend and we do a lot of trading).

I honestly don't know her age.

I recently bought two Randall cows, and when they calve, plan to milk at least one and would rather "get the kinks out" before hand as much as I can. I have waited years to get them and invested good money in them. They aren't practice cows, so I need to get to practicing so I'm comfortable when they are ready to freshen.

With the beef prices as they are right now, I'm not willing to invest more than cull price for a starter cow for myself.

So, I'm still wondering this: How hard is it to back her off on the feed? Will she produce less milk and maintain her weight, or does it depend also on how I milk her too? How do you milk less (to match reduced feed) w/o causing mastitis?

I wouldn't worry about backing off on milk. The change in feed will back her off for you, and if she is deep into lactation she probably won't give more than she can handle anyway. If she is deep lactation she should begin to back off on her own and she should start to gain weight if she gets decent grub. Wouldn't hurt to get a couple hundred pounds of silage to help transition her to hay. If the price is right I say go for it. She will give for a long time, albeit at a lower rate. If she is a young cow and and she starts gaining weight my guess is that your bull might get the job done.

Tad · #14 04/17/11, 05:59 AM

I would keep her milked out so not to bring on mastitis. If your friend is close enough get some feed from him and slowly add hay and cut back on silage and the cow should switch over fine. I would recomend getting no more than a day or two's worth of siliage at a time as it will spoil quickly and that might give you more problems than switching to hay.

Judy in IN · #15 04/17/11, 08:47 AM

I've had cows that wouldn't AI, but when you put them with a bull, the magic happens, lol.

I think it's worth a shot.

willow_girl · #16 04/17/11, 09:25 PM

Sometimes just taking some weight off them will do the trick, too. Also less stressful in a home situation than on a commercial dairy.

My Twister wouldn't breed back, which is one of the reasons why she was culled (also mastitis). I AI'ed her once ... my first attempt! .. and she settled! Had a bull calf, though ...

Alan G · #17 04/21/11, 06:18 PM

Your cow will try to keep milking as much as possible even if her feed is less, even if she looses weight, (fat AND muscle). That is the way a modern dairy cow's genetic material has been selected. I like your idea of milking less, may or may not increase mastitis risk, depends on what is going on in her glands, bacteria/SCCwise. I've done this without problems.

Alan

Scottland Jerseys · #18 04/21/11, 06:45 PM

If the farmer doesn't have records showing the cow's age, but she got her calf hood vaccination when she was young, you can come pretty close on her age by reading the calfhood tattoo.

Mare Owner · #19 04/22/11, 03:21 AM

I have to get my butt down the road to his place here soon, he's been so busy already with spring work that I haven't seen him lately (and I've been sick, so haven't been going anywhere!). He does have all the records on his cows so I will be able to get that from him.

Also met another dairy man last week, bought some hay from him, and he has a bunch of jerseys. Might have to go talk to him again too.

trbizwiz · #20 04/22/11, 10:56 AM

Have you looked at the small milkers on Ebay. Probably could get a decent one for $200. It would be much more familiar to her than hand milking.