making a buck on milk and calves

[HighlandCowboy]

Howdy folks. This is my first forum post ever, so this stuff is all a bit new to me. But it looks like an interesting bunch of cow people here, so I reckoned I'd dive in.

I wanted to bounce a plan of mine off of you folks and see what ya'll think. I should probably first explain that I've had cows for about 4 years. Right now I have 17 all together: 12 scottish highlanders, a few dairy breed bulls and steers, and 2 dairy heifers, the latter two being the focus of my new plan.

I'm planning on breeding the dairy girls around mid summer. What I'd like to do is milk the two cows, use what milk we can for our own consumption, and use the extra (the vast majority of it) to raise dairy bull calves to send off to the auction as feeder steers, maybe veal, or however it works out.

Most of my farming experience has been raising Jersey bull calves for beef, and bottlefeeding milk replacer, which is an expensive proposition. So I'm thinking that milking 2 cows and raising calves on "free" milk, and keeping a quick turnaround time by sending calves off to the auction at maybe 6 months or so, could possibly put a buck in my pocket.


Anybody out there ever tried anything similar? I'm open to any advice or suggestions.

[linn]

We have used extra milk cows for nurse cows for years. It works great if you don't pay too much for the calves you put on them. The best time to start is right when the cow has a new calf, that way she will get used to the other calves nursing. This works better for us then milking and bottle feeding the milk. After four months, we wean off the first bunch of calves and start the cow with second, smaller group, usually just two. The price of baby calves has skyrocketed in our area, so it is a risky business. The price you receive for weaned Jersey steers is next to nothing at our area sale barn.

[HighlandCowboy]

That was quick! I hadn't thought about getting more than one calf to nurse on each cow, but I can see that would simplify things. I think I'd probably try this with Holsteins, since even on a pound-for-pound basis they do better than Jerseys at the auction. I don't know why, because Jerseys make some good beef, but a lot of people are prejudiced against them. I've paid $20-40 for most of my Jersey bull calves, directly from the farmer, which is probably considered too much in a lot of areas, but I could probably get Holsteins cheaper. Anyway, I still have a year to devise my scheme. Thanks for the response.

[R.Adams]

In my area it works out to sell the calves quicker for a better return. I raise till about 3 months then sell at about 200-250 lbs weaning size. We get more per pound for them at a smaller size at a faster time and I can get 3 groups of calves in the year of milk. Our holstein easily raised 4 calves at a time for the first group then we would go to 3 then 2 for last group. Holstein cows though will let extra calves nurse when their eating grain themselves, but we rarely had luck in them allowing all the calves to nurse round the clock.

We had to just basically allow them to nurse the cow on the twice a day like you would milk a cow and feed a bottle baby. Now, jerseys will allow multiple calves to nurse round the clock. Don't know if their mother ability is so much greater than the holstein which allows for it, but who knows.

Good luck with you plan.

[HighlandCowboy]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate the part about the number of calves that you are able to raise on each cow as the milk production tapers off, because that's something I'd wondered about. I've never milked anything before, so that in itself will be a hurdle to cross. The idea of letting multiple calves nurse on each cow puts a new twist on things, since so far I had planned on bottle feeding or using nipple pails. Seems like a major labor saver if I could get it to work, though. My two girls are both half Jersey; one is half Holstien, the other is 1/4 Red Holstein and 1/4 Hereford.

[Callieslamb]

We were doing just this idea last year. We bought calves for $70, fed them on milk for 10 weeks, weaned them, and sold for $1 a pound - about $200-250 each. It worked well for us. Until I quit milking the cow. ..It was a good project for our 10 yr old son to pad his bank account with also.

One word of caution - a modern dairy cow can produce much more milk than even 2 calves need. So bottling them the milk - knowing how much they are getting might be a better bet for you. I do not know how many you are thinking of raising at a time -20 on a bottle would be a lot of work and I wouldn't try that many on the bottle! I switch my calves to buckets at about a week old and they are much easier to feed than with the bottles. (faster too). You can put them on the cow, if the cow will take them. But even at 3 days on a bottle (which is when we bought ours) they might not take to the cow. The cow will milk far longer than the calves need to be fed milk, so you will need to provide colostrum for any new ones you bring in after the cow has been in milk for a while.

I had a jersey cow and holstein calves. 2 of the Holsteins calves just did not do well on the jersey milk. The vet said there was so much fat coming out of them that he couldn't even test the manure to see what the problem was. So I started skimming off some of the cream and they did much better. The other holsteins seemed to do just fine.

Do this in the early summer to late fall. Winter raising calves is really hard.

I'd find a farmer around that can provide you with the calves rather than going to the sale barn. Make SURE they have had colostrum - at least 3 feedings - 3days is much better.

As far as when to sell them - I'd watch the market and decide as I went. Keeping them on free grass for 2-3 months might make you more money than selling them right after weaning.

[linn]

Jersey milk is rich, that is why we usually start 4 calves on our Jersey cows when they calve. We turn the cows in twice a day to see their calf and let all four calves nurse. As they go farther into their lactation production lessens so the next go around we usually put two calves on the cow.

[huvalfarm]

I've had this same idea... so I bought 3 auction bull calves, 2 angus crosses and a jersey. They all survived the scours and I learned alot and worked really hard. My cow didn't want anything to do with these little guys, so I have been bottle feeding them. They are steers now and are to be weaned from the bottle this week. I really haven't figured out the best time or way to sell them -should I wait till they are a year old and several hundred pounds or should I wait till they are 3 or 4 months? - sale barn or to an individual as grass fed beef- Any input on this?
I would like to do this again. I'm wondering... how do you get a cow to take on calves that are not hers, or where can you find one that will?? ( It sure would save time and money if I have a good nurse cow )

[mozarkian]

We do this to some extent, we have 3 Jersey cows that we handmilk. This supplies all dairy needs for our family and the excess is bottle fed to Jersey bull calves that we buy from a nearby small dairy for $50 each. We have a dozen here now, have had as few as 3 and as many as 19 at any one time, not all on bottle at one time, of course.
We do this year round, yes, winter is hard, but dairys have calves born year round and with proper shelter, and care the weather doesn't seem to affect the calves all that much.
Some go to the freezer for our beef, some get sold either as weaned calves (usually 8-12 weeks) or later on as feeders or sometimes we have someone buy a bull to put with thier heifers later. When we sell depends on market prices, feed costs, how the pasture is holding in summer or how the hay is holding in winter, or we need the cash to buy or repair something for the farm.
We have managed to sell enough calves over time to cover most of initial outlay of cash to buy the cows, calves, fix and build fences and cover most of the feed bills, vet bills, and taxes.
Are we making money? No, probably not all things considered. But we have good milk, good beef, and really enjoy the work. Starting this year, we have moved away from AI and have kept the best looking bull calf from the dairy to use next year as a bull, then once his work is done, he will also go to the freezer.
One thing that works in our favor, is that the dairy we buy from gives us first choice on all his bulls, and they are 3-5 days old when we get them, have been trained to the bottle and given collostrum, which helps us tremdously.
I am sure that we could tweak this a little to make it more profitable, and would be glad to hear input, but for now, this works and is manageable with our other work. Good luck to you!

[francismilker]

The problem comes along sometimes when grass is a little short and you're having to feed that cow to get every drop of milk out of her and then the milk is no longer "free' anymore. Her body condition will look fine one day and then you'll wake up to see a "bag of bones" in the pasture and you'll wonder where it all went.

In order to maintain a healthy cow make sure you feed or graze her well at the start of your project and never back off. Most of the time a milk cow will give it to the calf she's nursing and the one in her stomach before she gives it to herself and will end up falling victim to being over nursed. Just my two cents here.......

[mozarkian]

Originally Posted by francismilker

The problem comes along sometimes when grass is a little short and you're having to feed that cow to get every drop of milk out of her and then the milk is no longer "free' anymore. Her body condition will look fine one day and then you'll wake up to see a "bag of bones" in the pasture and you'll wonder where it all went.

In order to maintain a healthy cow make sure you feed or graze her well at the start of your project and never back off. Most of the time a milk cow will give it to the calf she's nursing and the one in her stomach before she gives it to herself and will end up falling victim to being over nursed. Just my two cents here.......

Good point Francismilker, which is why we don't see raising calves on our scale as ever being a moneymaker. Feed is something that doesn't get cut here, and during dry times like now or dead of winter, you have to feed more. I figure we break even mostly, when you count the milk, meat, and a few to sell now and then. Good enough.

I think it is also easier to maintain condition on the cows when the calves are bottle fed, so that you can manage the milk you have. Left on the cow, some of those little suckers can guzzle way more than their fair share and those sweet old girls will just keep giving it up till it hurts.

Our calves start getting introduced to grain and hay when just a few days old and could easily be weaned at 8 weeks, but we tend to give them some milk as long as we have it. All 12 that we have now are weaned, and 2 of the three cows are on maternity leave, leaving just one in milk. Last night, I didn't need the milk at the house, so I poured it into the trough in the calf lot and caused a riot-- pretty funny watching several 300 -500 lb calves slurping for every drop.

[mozarkian]

Originally Posted by huvalfarm

I've had this same idea... so I bought 3 auction bull calves, 2 angus crosses and a jersey. They all survived the scours and I learned alot and worked really hard. My cow didn't want anything to do with these little guys, so I have been bottle feeding them. They are steers now and are to be weaned from the bottle this week. I really haven't figured out the best time or way to sell them -should I wait till they are a year old and several hundred pounds or should I wait till they are 3 or 4 months? - sale barn or to an individual as grass fed beef- Any input on this?
I would like to do this again. I'm wondering... how do you get a cow to take on calves that are not hers, or where can you find one that will?? ( It sure would save time and money if I have a good nurse cow )

Huvalfarm, We are in south central MO- not sure where you are, but we have found that Jersey steers and bulls get dinged hard at the local salebarns because most of the cattle around here are beef breeds. Since ours are Jersy steers and bulls, we sell them online instead of taking the hit at the sale barn. Age we sell depends on when we need to liquidate some to either make room for more or to pay for something on the farm. Sometimes we sell steers at weaning and sometimes at about 400-600 pounds. In our experience, the Jersey bulls have sold better at 10-12 months of age, when folks buy them for heifer bulls.

[stifflej]

This sounds like an interesting idea, I have access to as many Holstein steers as I want at a reasonable price ($75), would need to find a cow or 2, but my question is, how do you go about getting the calf to nurse off a new cow? The calves i would have access to are trained for a bucket after they get colostrum, would they take to a cow even after that?
Thanks.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Yes~ I have some ideas but lets have a refresher course on how to graft a calf onto a cow please! I may have found a couple to pick up tomorrow that I'll want to graft on to Bessie!

[huvalfarm]

Mozarkian, we are located in south Louisiana. I have to admit that I knew when I bought the Jersey that he wasn't worth as much as the angus crosses through the auction barn -- he was just soooo cute, I bought him anyway! He will probably be the one that ends up in the freezer.
Now that these guys are about weaned, I need to start figuring out what to do with them, so walk me through the process of selling online. Do you have your own website, or do you advertise through the classifieds? How do you price you cattle? Grass fed or finished on grain?

[mozarkian]

Craigslist and a local online free classified site. Have sold a few by putting them on the grocery store and feedstore bulletin boards, too. But mainly Craigslist.
Prices fluctuate, so I just try to keep watch on what others are pricing similar calves at and come in slightly less than thiers. Also helps to watch the sale barn reports near you-- will keep you current on market prices and conditions.
There is also a butcher near here that has some farmers feeding steers out, and people buy them through the butcher shop, with two checks when they come pick up the meat. One to the butcher for processing and the other to the farmer at so much per pound --hanging weight.
Ours are grass and grain fed, plus hay in winter or drought.

[huvalfarm]

Thanks Mozarkian- you've got some good ideas. I'm going to look into what's available in our area online and figure out my next step.