Herefords

[Timberline]

Does anyone here belong to the American Hereford Association? My grandparents raised registered Herefords in WY and CO from about 1920 to 1965. There were pretty well known for their bulls and buyers came from many states to buy them.

I would like to find someone that has some cattle from their lines, if possible.

I would prefer to give names and info in a pm.

Here is my grandfather with two of his bulls sometime in the late 1940's in Gunnison, CO. Granddad was 6'2".

[rancher1913]

my greatgrandfather and grandfather had herfords around that same time and maybe the same blood lines but all I have is photos now. we switched to angus around the mid sixties and still run them.

[tinknal]

That is a fine looking bull for a 40's model Hereford!

I would contact the Assn and ask if they have some kind of pedigree data base. Do you know if he showed in Denver? Do you remember the ranch's name?

[springvalley]

That was a nice lookin bull like tinknal said for in the 40`s, I have a neighbor that just sold off the last of his herefords, I think he said they had been in it 100 years if I remember right. > Thanks Marc

[bugsbunny]

I'm a member.

You can PM me whatever you want. I know pretty much every Hereford guy on the East Coast. My family has been running polled herefords out here for longer than I've been alive.

[bugsbunny]

It's cool too look at the pictures of the older Herefords.

They had a lot more white on them in the old days. If you look at the show winners today you see bulls with a lot more pigment.

There was a big deal made about sunlight, and pink eyes, and eye damage on bulls like the one in the picture with no eye pigment. I personally have only ever had one animal, an OLD cow, get eye cancer. We had her eye removed. She went on and had a calf the next year, missed the following year, and we sent her off for bologna.

Here are a few Grand Champs from last year. Look how much darker they are!

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by bugsbunny

It's cool too look at the pictures of the older Herefords.

They had a lot more white on them in the old days. If you look at the show winners today you see bulls with a lot more pigment.



Here are a few Grand Champs from last year. Look how much darker they are!

Breed improvement through creative genetics........

Amazing what the Simmental, Saler, and Limousine has done for the Hereford breed, isn't it?

[Ronney]

Chalk, while you may have personal reasons for wanting to do things via PM, I would have thought you would probably get more information by making public what data you have.

Off on another tangent, your grandfather's bull is what I would still call a Hereford and is much what you would see over here - the white face, brisket, underbelly and legs and the white ridge down the spine and the red pigment starting well behind the ears. Much less of the deep red Devonish colouring.

Bugs, the "big deal" involved with cancer eye in white faced cattle is very real in countries such as our own. I have sent a bull to the works because he contracted cancer eye (no dark pigmentation around the eyes), my neighbour has had the vet out to 4 of her breeding cows - again, white faces with no eye pigmentation. They are what we call BWF - Black White Faces which are Hereford/Friesians. All of them had cancer eye and are on a slippery slope to the works. There is a very real need to breed up white faced beef cattle with pigmentation around the eyes. I have now got to the point that anything bought in or bred on my farm with no pigmentation around the eyes, gets finished as beef and goes to the works.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[Ronney]

Originally Posted by tinknal

Breed improvement through creative genetics........

Amazing what the Simmental, Saler, and Limousine has done for the Hereford breed, isn't it?

Good point Tinknal because Herefords should not be that colour - although I guess that those that breed them up would argue the point.

[bugsbunny]

Originally Posted by Ronney

Bugs, the "big deal" involved with cancer eye in white faced cattle is very real in countries such as our own. I have sent a bull to the works because he contracted cancer eye (no dark pigmentation around the eyes), my neighbour has had the vet out to 4 of her breeding cows - again, white faces with no eye pigmentation. They are what we call BWF - Black White Faces which are Hereford/Friesians. All of them had cancer eye and are on a slippery slope to the works. There is a very real need to breed up white faced beef cattle with pigmentation around the eyes. I have now got to the point that anything bought in or bred on my farm with no pigmentation around the eyes, gets finished as beef and goes to the works.

I respectfully disagree. Cancer is one of those things that can run in herds. Its hard to get rid of because it usually doesn't pop up until the animals are older. Which means that by the time animals start coming down with it you already have several generations of replacement heifers from that bull. Now they're all tainted goods.

Just like scientists breed lab rats to be susceptible to cancer, a cattleman can take extreme culling measures and cull every animal and their progeny when cancer pops up in the herd. It is hard to establish good blood in the beginning, but once you cull down to the traits that you want you will be SO glad that you did.

The one cow that we ever had get eye cancer had eye pigment. She was a Knight Rider daughter out of the program at Mich State. Beautiful EXPENSIVE cow. We never kept any of her progeny and we never had cancer pop back up anywhere in the herd. That's not to say that my lone quarter century of experience is the end all be all, but that has been my experience.

For a good long while our herd had a HEAVY Enforcer influence. Short stout polled herefords. Virtually zero eye pigment. We kept every cow until they went out for bologna and never had a speck of cancer in those cows. If they did get or have cancer it was long after their reproductive life was over. In which case, I really don't care.

MY uncle got on a Felton's kick for a while with the AI and we have a lot more pigment in our animals now. I personally see no difference in the production or the predisposition to get any diseases either way.

The one thing that I did notice was that the higher white herefords seemed to be more friendly/dopey. They may be coincidental as well as our herefords with more white were out of a different bull than the darker herefords.

So, its still a crap shoot. Who knows?! LOL.

[Ronney]

Bugs, you can respectively disagree all you like - unfortunately I've seen too much of it in this country not to take it on board. I also notice that you don't say which part of the States you are from.

The bull which I worksed because of cancer eye had no pigmentation. His mother is my oldest cow, a R14 BWF with pigmentation around both eyes. I also have progeny of his, some of which are reaching their latter years and none have had cancer eye. All have dark faces or pigmentation around the eyes. As for my neighbours cows, they are not from the same source and she has built them up from various places over many years. The only cattle that have been affected are those without any, or minimal pigmentation. Which rather blows away the theory of it being one of those things that runs in herds. This isn't just my take on it either. Most farmers here, vets and anybody involved in farming, will tell you not to keep a beast beyond works age with a white face and no eye pigmentation. Yes, your right, it doesn't come to light until the animal is older but that makes sense doesn't it. 5,6,7 years subjected to sunlight is what it's going to take for the cancer to appear. It's not going to appear in a 6 month old calf or even a yearling.

NZ has very harsh sunlight and not getting better with the passage of time. It behoves those living in areas that are very sunny to think very hard about what cattle they keep. It's interesting that those who keep Jersey, Friesian, Devons, Angus and other dark cattle have a very low incidence of cancer eye as opposed to those who keep anything with a white face and no pigmentation around the eyes.

Sorry Bugs, your not going to sway me on that one, as I said, I've seen too much of it in non-pigmentated, white faced cattle to believe that it's a herd problem.

Forgot to add that Herefords should be quiet, friendly and dopey. They are actually nice cattle and are being shunted sideways by the Angus and those that wish to breed the exotics. I would keep Hereford but we are sub-tropical, high-rainfall, clay pan and the combination is not a pretty sight in the middle of winter.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Ronney

Good point Tinknal because Herefords should not be that colour - although I guess that those that breed them up would argue the point.

This has been the dirty little unspoken secret of both Hereford breeds for quite some time now. Are they doing any genetic testing yet like the horse breeds are starting to do?

[Allen W]

I remember back in the late 80's when one hot bull's momma's registration numbers didn't check out and the polled herefords were using different color registration certificates for that bull's decendents.

But this goes on in all breeds, just easier to do in some then others.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Allen W

I remember back in the late 80's when one hot bull's momma's registration numbers didn't check out and the polled herefords were using different color registration certificates for that bull's decendents.

But this goes on in all breeds, just easier to do in some then others.

Back before DNA the horse Jocks would save up the registration papers from slaughter horses. As soon as they found a horse that matched a set of papers they would sell them as registered.

[oregon woodsmok]

I like that old Hereford. There's an entire mile of steaks on that back.

Look at the rump on that modern bull in the smallest photo. There's something somewhere in that pedigree that isn't Hereford.

Of course, in some breeds of cattle, at least, if you do a cross and then breed back to purebreds for 4-5 generations, the resulting animals get registered as purebred.

[Timberline]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I have many, many photos of my grandparents' herd. They had some incidents of cancer eye (and if you anything about the sunlight in the high mountains, you know that is an issue). They didn't have very many suffer from it.

I like the old time Herefords, but doubt there are very few around, if any.

[Timberline]

Originally Posted by tinknal

That is a fine looking bull for a 40's model Hereford!

I would contact the Assn and ask if they have some kind of pedigree data base. Do you know if he showed in Denver? Do you remember the ranch's name?

Thanks, I will do that. No, they didn't show, yes I know the ranch name, I still own the brand.

[francismilker]

Chalkcreek,

I'm amazed at that picture! Talk about American Nostalgia. That could easily have been a Norman Rockwell painting from that era. That's a keeper. I see the wood rail corral fencing with the mountain view in the picture and it makes me want to sale out and head for the hills!

[Ronney]

Tinknel, do you notice something else about Chalk's grandad's bull? He's still got curly hair. Nothing smooth coated about that fellow and he looks exactly what a Hereford should look like. Not only that, he has the huge feet of the Hereford.

Chalk, I'm sure that some of us would really appreciate seeing photo's of your grandad's herd, both cows and bulls, if you can find the time to scan and post them. Good luck with trying to track down the blood lines, it would be interesting to see how you go. Failing that, and if you are young enough, perhaps you could look at breeding back to the true Hereford.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[Allen W]

Dad still has a herd of good square headed herefords, sorry bugsbunny but them polled herefords just don't look right.