Miniature Dairy Cattle

[SilverFlame819]

Okay, I'll bite. I stumbled across pictures the other day of miniature dairy cattle. Apparently there are several types out now (I thought there were only mini Jerseys). I have zero interest in standard cattle other than raising bottle dairy heifers to re-sell later on, but these minis... They should just be outlawed they're so cute! So apart from being about a bajillion dollars each...

What are your thoughts on them? Comments, experiences, ideas, opinions?

I have experience milking cattle by hand, helping in a commercial dairy, dealing with beef cattle setups, bottle-feeding calves, and training calves to lead, but past that, I'm pretty much a cattle novice. Feel free to impart any wisdom you have! I'd love to learn about these little guys.

TIA

[Callieslamb]

I love them.....but it came down to pure economics tfor us.

small cow =not enough milk, not enough meat= need 2 (@$3K a pop).
large= need one. One to breed, one to worry about, one to milk, 1 calf to raise for beef.

[oldtimer]

Silver,

As far as I know all mini breeds, cattle and horses, start out as runts.
Runts have a mortality rate of around 50% or higher.
It takes about 10 generations to breed out the genetic defects a runt is born with, if it survives, before that breed becomes a stable breed with little or no genetic defects and the mortality rate comes back to the original breeds mortality rate.

I have raised many Angus runt calves and about the time I think I am out of the woods with them I find them room temperature.
I have one right now who looks and acts absolutely great, but I am fighting falling in love with her because I know what could happen any time.
She came into this world on Oct 24 at 32 lbs. out of a first time heifer. Mamma walked away from her.

I also have 3 mini horses.
I was going to breed my Mustang mare with my Mini stallion and start a new breed called “Mini Mustangs” but my mare was not sound and I didn’t want to put her through that.
My stallion is registered, as was my Mustang.

I’ll take some pics as soon as it stops raining.

Hope this helps
OT

[myersfarm]

Most of the mini's I have heard of came from crossing with the Dexter cattle breed...then breeding offspring together...I have 2 OLD WORLD jersey cows real small compared to the reg jersey but the semen came from Jersey Island were they are still small not mini's but small....

The prices are high just as soon as I got 100 of them they would be cheap

[oldtimer]

Myersfarm,

I have heard that but have never seen one.
What were their height at the front shoulders?
With a mini horse it is a max of 39 in. at the last hair of the mane to be registered as a mini.
OT
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*Why is it that everything is spelled correctly and it makes perfect sense, until the second after you hit post?

[matt_man]

I have a couple of mini jerseys. One was the offspring of a small (45-46") registered jersey AI bred to Old World Jersey. She is 43" at the shoulder at 3yrs old. Small enough to be able to get under and milk and large enough that I would not worry about calving troubles even if bred to a standard. We didn't milk her so I don't know how much she gave exactly but she raised her own calf and a bull calf that was born the week before and weighed 75lbs at birth.

I have a standard grade jersey that is 43" and gives over 5 gal/day at peak.

[kirkmcquest]

I've been looking into the dexter breed of mini. They do seem pretty cool...it's either that or goats for me this spring. Crunching the numbers makes goats seem more attractive right now....but cattle are easier to keep in...IDK.

[genebo]

There is a long established Dexter dairy in New York, and several newer ones around the country.

That's sort of unusual for Dexters. They're normally found on family farms of just a few acres that won't support a full size dairy cow.

If you don't need a great deal of milk, but would like to have some really good quality milk and a nice beef calf, a Dexter will fill the bill just right.

I've bred a few Dexter/Jerseys and Dexter/Shorthorns (milking Shorthorn). They're nice cows that produce more milk and less beef than the Dexters. I'm waiting for the birth of a new Dexter/Jersey calf any day, now.

One good thing about Dexters is that they can be had for a whole lot less money than a Jersey the same size.

Dexter milk is about the same butterfat percentage as Jersey milk. It has smaller fat globules, so it's easier to digest.

Dexters are generally healthier, rarely suffering from mastitis or milk fever and Dexter bulls are easy to be around. You can't say that about Jersey bulls.

While some Dexters have been observed to produce 4 gallons a day, most only produce 1/2 of that. A good plan with a Dexter is to take one gallon at one milking a day, and leave the rest of her milk for the calf. That's a good way to make some excellent beef that wins awards.

How about that? Enough milk for a family of four, great beef, only milking once a day, easy births, and eats about 1/2 the feed it takes for a full sized Jersey.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[MARYDVM]

Dexter prices in AZ are not high. I see bred cows for $700-800 on Craigslist from time to time. I bought my 1/2 Mini Jersey1/2 Dexter heifer in calf to a mini Jersey bull a few years ago for $1000.

The breeders of registered Mini Jerseys are asking a lot less for their bull calves than they used to. I expect the cow and heifer prices to come down in the future. The cute little cows are only worth the big bucks if you can sell their offspring for high prices. Eventually the bubble will burst like it has for other livestock fads.

I like milking my mini. She's raising a chunky little bull calf right now, and I pen him up and milk what I need, whenever I want to. I don't need gallons of milk every day, and she raises a nice little beef. But if I had a family that needed the milk, she wouldn't be a high enough producer.

[SilverFlame819]

Well, I don't plan to eat the calves, so don't really need a dual-purpose, although would a duallie bull calf sell for more than a diary-stock bull calf? I've been reading some Dexter forums, and some of the Dexter breeders are insane. I mean, I know that happens in EVERY group of people, but still. The battling over the dwarf gene is a bit nuts. People get VERY heated over it.

I would prefer a straight dairy-style mini, but wouldn't rule out a dual-purpose. Do the duallies eat more than a dairy-only? Do dairy-styles need more supplementation? Do the dairy-style minis have easier calving than the duallies (like a Jersey vs. an Angus) or does it depend on the breed?

I won't have a place to put a cow or the money for a cow for a long time, so I'll probably end up getting a mini after the market has crashed on the "new" (popular) breeds.

I would like to sell goat and sheep milk products, but think it would be nice to have some cow milk just for myself (or me and whoever I'm living with)... So I definitely wouldn't need a ton of milk. And leftover milk could be used for a multitude of things. Also, if I'm milking a herd of goats and/or sheep, adding a mini cow into the milking rotation wouldn't be such a big deal.

[Ronney]

There is no such thing as a miniature breed - and I say that tongue in cheek. They come about because some smart thinking person got abnormally small cows and bred them back to abnormally small bulls therefore keeping the genetic line going. Anything that bred back to it's larger genes was discarded. Then these same smart thinking people went on to ask big money for these so-called miniatures and a whole heap of silly people paid it.

This is an issue that really annoys me in more ways than one. The true Jersey was never the big cow that she has now been bred up to be, nor was the Friesian and this is something that people seem to be unaware of. Consequently, anything that is small is considered to be miniature. My small herd of 9 has 3 standard bred Jersey's in it - two of them measure 50" and are the only cows I own that I don't have to stand on tip-toe to see over the top of. The 3rd Jersey is standard bred but is a good 3" taller. This would equate with Myersfarm's oberservations - and they have been lucky enough to get semen from the real thing. Lucky you Myers.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[genebo]

Ronney,

You hit the nail on the head about the miniatures. That's why some Dexter people don't want you calling their cattle 'miniatures'. There are no 'full sized' Dexters. They've always been this size.

SilverFlame819,

The amount that a cow eats depends upon how much milk she produces and how much body mass she has. Every gallon of milk costs X amount of feed, and every pound of beef costs Y amount of feed. It so happens that mainaining the body mass of a cow costs a whole lot less than producing milk. A beefy build cow (dual purpose) that gives 2 gallons a day will eat slightly more than a dairy build cow giving the same amount of milk.

You will pay for the milk she produces, even if you can't use it. If you (or the calf) don't milk it all out of her every day, you'll risk some health problems. So choose your breed according to the amount of milk you need or can use.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Ronney

There is no such thing as a miniature breed - and I say that tongue in cheek. They come about because some smart thinking person got abnormally small cows and bred them back to abnormally small bulls therefore keeping the genetic line going. Anything that bred back to it's larger genes was discarded. Then these same smart thinking people went on to ask big money for these so-called miniatures and a whole heap of silly people paid it.

This is an issue that really annoys me in more ways than one. The true Jersey was never the big cow that she has now been bred up to be, nor was the Friesian and this is something that people seem to be unaware of. Consequently, anything that is small is considered to be miniature. My small herd of 9 has 3 standard bred Jersey's in it - two of them measure 50" and are the only cows I own that I don't have to stand on tip-toe to see over the top of. The 3rd Jersey is standard bred but is a good 3" taller. This would equate with Myersfarm's oberservations - and they have been lucky enough to get semen from the real thing. Lucky you Myers.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Amen.

[genebo]

Misty, a Dexter cow, had her Dexter/Jersey bull calf today. It weighed 47 pounds, the largest calf ever born here. Misty was uncomfortable for 4 or 5 days preceding the birth. That's unusual for a Dexter and is probably due to the size of the calf.

She was bred to the Jersey bull because he's A2/A2 and I had a sale for an A2/A2 Dexter/Jersey heifer.



Genebo
Paradise farm

[SilverFlame819]

Awwwwww, BABIES! So cute!

I've been thinking perhaps I could run a duallie breed and give the bull calves to someone who wanted to raise their own beef in a small package...

Are Dexters the only breed with inherent dwarfism? All the other "mini" breeds are just bred-down regular stock, aren't they? I'd really like to not deal with the dwarfism gene, if I could...

Ronney, I totally get you on the "mini" thing... When I used to have Shelties people would always say, "Oohhh, a miniature Collie!" It is one of the things that makes you grumble and bristle as a Sheltie owner (and now people are breeding "miniature Border Collies" which is enough to send me into a tangent), but I learned to nicely inform them before ripping their heads off. (Some people just don't know any better!)... The whole "miniature Jersey" thing is just like the "Icelandic Pony" or Shetland sheep being called "mini sheep" issue to me - simply a mislabel. I suppose a more correct name would be "runtified Jersey" - but then who would want to buy a runtified cow? *lol* Is smallered a word? How about smallened? Maybe they should be called selectively-bred shrinky----- Jerseys.

At any rate... Even with the mislabeling, all the bred-down breeds are the ones I'm debating about. I'm not really wanting cattle with an actual dwarfism gene. I'm also not wanting to get a breed that has its name TRADEMARKED and won't allow you to use the name for your own calves, like a lot of the "breed manufacturers" are doing these days (like the use of the "Panda" name on Happy Mountain Panda cattle). If I buy a Hay-Manglin' cow, I'd like to have the freedom to sell her calves as Hay-Manglers. Ya know? Dealing with corporations who are now patenting cows is, to me, like buying GMO, patented soybeans. I'd rather not be involved, nor be one of the people who help perpetuate the breed (like a Labradoodle)...

[gracie88]

Are Dexters the only breed with inherent dwarfism? All the other "mini" breeds are just bred-down regular stock, aren't they? I'd really like to not deal with the dwarfism gene, if I could...

If they have been "minified" by crossing with dwarfy dexters, then they could be packing that same gene. My cousin has a "Covingtonshire" bull (made-up mini breed consisting of dexter x mini hereford x lowline angus) that is super beefy and could easily be a dwarf, I don't know if he's ever been tested. Testing seems to be a pretty common thing now though, it's pretty easy to avoid even Dexters with the gene. I wouldn't let that be what decides you for or against a whole breed.

[genebo]

SilverFlame819,

Practically all breeds of cattle have dwarfism in them. Dexter dwarfism stands out because it is a dominant trait, whereas many of the others are recessive. That means that a single gene makes a Dexter a dwarf as well as a carrier of dwarfism. In the recessive forms, a single gene makes that cow or bull a carrier but it doesn't show.

Angus has several different forms of dwarfism. One form is benign, and makes a small Angus. These are often sold as mini-Angus. Another form of Angus dwarfism makes a calf whose skeleton fails to grow and the calf dies at around a year old. These are also sold as mini-Angus, but you don't want one of them.

The form of dwarfism that Dexters carry has been around far longer than Dexters have. It has been found in skeletal remains of ancient cattle. When the Irish were buying cattle for small homesteads, they bought the smallest ones, that would eat the least. They tended to select the chondro carriers. That concentrated the gene in the population. Then when the breed was formed, it was done so by buying a herd of the small Irish cattle and isolating them. Selective breeding eliminated all colors except solid black and red, and further selected for the small size, which again concentrated the number of chondro carriers in the herd.

The result is what we now know as Dexter cattle. Smallness is their most widely known attribute. Much of that smallness is due to the chondro gene. Without it, the average Dexter could be as big as a Jersey.

It has become quite the fashion to breed cattle for larger size or heavier milk production. Both of these are what the original breeders selected against. The Dexter breed came into being by moving away from those traits that caused the animal to require more feed.

A search for bovine dwarfism will produce a number of hits of the forms of dwarfism you can find in cattle. Here's one abstract of an article with Julie Cavanaugh as a contributor. She was instrumental in identifyng Dexter dwarfism about 6 or 7 years ago.

http://www.intl-pag.org/12/abstracts/P5j_PAG12_640.html

Without dwarfism, the whole nature of the Dexter breed would change. Like putting a big V8 in a sub-compact car.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[SilverFlame819]

Wow. Thanks for the info, Genebo!