question(s) for dexter owners

[sticky_burr]

i like these lil buggers. seems to meet my needs plus some a little milk for me and maybe raw milk sales(legal here) maybe some beef every year if lucky.. not intensive calf makers or feed out for the fall of lots of cows...

soo in getting dexters did you get them genetically tested for bulldog and PHA maybe chondrocyte .. etc(what are other things that are good to be tested for?)
if you are demanding(or requesting these tests) from a supplier/owner who should be responsible for the cost? perhaps like if its clean i will pay the full price/ agreed price + test cost. if positive its all on the seller?
what i 'want' is "naturally polled" black dexters i dont really think these are "full" dexters but can be called this. i want to get 1-2 fertilized genteically CLEAN cows not closely related. perhaps 6-9 months apart. and at some point get a young (not mature) bull to be the heard daddy perhaps a mini agnus x dexter
should i just stick with 'pure' dexter is there a trade to be made in milk beef or temperament if introducing the mini-agnus? is it "ok" to breed back one of the calves providing its male ?
i been thinking to barn them at night if they are halter trained even better. do a morning milking bottle feed the calf some mothers milk to get them used to being handled. and just let them out into their paddock during the day with the calf(s)...?
how young is too young to introduce a halter? i was thinking could slip a halter on when they are on the bottle? not to lead but to get use to getting it on and off..

ok to those who stuck it out .. is it a reasonable plan? any comments questions or answers will be gratefully accepted

[genebo]

There are a number of things you can have Dexters tested for. Not all of them would be meaningful to you.

Dwarfism (chondrodysplasia), color, dun, genotyping, parentage verification, A2 milk, PHA.

PHA is a "water baby", an embryo that doesn't develop lungs and accumulates fluids until it is too big to pass through the birth canal. Bad stuff. It is found in a single line of descendency in Dexters. You can test for it or research pedigrees. Testing costs more, but is easier and is accurate. I'd suggest that you get this test done and avoid buying positives. Make sure the test is done for Dexter PHA, which is slightly different from other breeds form of PHA.

Chondrodysplasia is the inherited trait that makes the short legged Dexters short legged. A calf that inherits two chondro genes (one from each of it's parents) is either born dead or aborted early. One gene is OK, two means a dead calf. I'd recommend testing for it, so you can make an educated decision.

A2 beta casein testing is available to determine if the cow or bull carries the genetics to produce A1 beta casein in the milk. A1 beta casein has been linked to health problems and a lot of people are trying to avoid A1 milk. This is not a Dexter thing. It's in all breeds. Read up on "A2 Milk" and make your own decision.

Color and dun probably aren't worth testing for, from how you describe your intended use.

You can get PHA testing from 3 different labs: Agrigenomics, Pfizer or Igenity. It costs about $25-$27.

You can get all the other tests from the Veterinary Genetics Laboratory at University of California, Davis. Or you can get them from the same source if you're testing registered Dexters through:

http://www.legacydextercattleregistry.com/info.php

The prices are lower through them.

Registered Dexters generally sell for a bit more than unregistered. The benefit is being able to trace their ancestry to find out which ones come from a line that has the characteristics you want. It could come into play when you try to sell your calves.

There is no way to register any Dexter that didn't come from two registered Dexter parents, so using a bull that is not fullblooded Dexter renders the calves unregisterable.

Dexters are a dual purpose breed, beef and milk, but some have been bred to favor one type or the other. The beefiest ones may not provide as much milk as you like and the milkiest ones may not yield as much beef as you'd like. There are still plenty of those that can deliver both. You just have to search for them.

Dexter temperament is the easiest going of all cattle. However, each one has it's own personality and has been handled different amounts. It would pay you to visit and inspect any cow or bull you're considering to make sure that you are compatible. That's never more true than when you intend to milk the cow. Once or twice a day under a cranky cow gets old in a hurry.

Modern Angus have a reputation for being harder to handle than your parents' Angus, but I've seen some that were still sweet natured. It's hard to predict how the calf will behave in a cross breeding. The calves I get from my gentle Dexter bull all inherit his sweet disposition.

People who show Dexters put halters on them at a very young age. I never put halters on mine, but I only have a few and each one gets a lot of attention and training.

Dexters don't need to be barned at night in most parts of the country. They need a shelter, but it can be fairly rudimentary and is best if it's open and airy.

I never bottle feed my calves. I let mama raise them until they're at least 4 months old before I even begin to handle them. This lets them learn how to be a cow (or bull). I'm there, feeding and caring for them, and the calves are used to me. They come to me when they're ready and I hook them on sweet feed and treats. They're very easy to train then and they'll always remember that they're a cow. The worst thing is for a cow to grow up thinking that you and she are buddies, for her games are too rough for you and you can get hurt. It's better for her to respect you as the Alpha member of the herd.

Dexters are a naturally horned breed. I keep the horned ones to preserve them as they were when I fell in love with them. They're very good with their horns and behave quite well around me. Here's a video of me working among the horned Dexters. They're my pets.

http://www.youtube.com/user/belindabowen#p/u/25/fyHiHaOceEM
Genebo
Paradise Farm

[sticky_burr]

the reason to put the cow/calf under cover is to protect them fom varmits of one type or annother and to be able to obtain milk .. really dont wanna chase them down at 4 am although could probally train them but i'd have to open the gate / prop the wire up. but the again there is still varmits .. and since it will likely be a few of em .. if it gets to say 10 before culling.
horns are more of a liability thing if a cow decides i should not be checking out a calf or a bull sees me as a competition. never mind if there are little kids arpound that wanna play with the calves. i would or could not de-horn it seems 100 times worse than banding
as for the halter it maybe nessicary at some point .. not sure only cows i dealt with were lined up at the barn but also open to pasture. god forbid some how one decides to walk off up the road i suppose i could chose that moment to try to get them to respond to a rope halter

thanks for your answer much to think about.. as for the A1 is there mandatory testing /culling for the usda/fda yet?

[~Tomboy~]

Hi Stickey_Burr

Below are some links to the American Dexter Cattle Associations website. There you will find information about testing along with their approved labs. I also included a link that may help inform you with the genetic defects some Dexters may carry.
Each breeder is different, some test for everything. some test for nothing, some test for whatever concerns them.
I try and tell prospective buyers to read and learn as much as possible, talk & visit as many farms/ranches as you can. Choose animals that will fit what your plans are.


My preference are polled Dexters as I don't want to mess with dehorning. They are also tested for everything, that being said you can also expect to pay more for that. I feel it is my responsibility as a breeder to do that. I personally want to know what I am selling to someone and that they fully understand what they are buying.


http://www.dextercattle.org/testing_info.htm

http://www.dextercattle.org/genetics.htm

Barb
Legend Rock Ranch

[copperhead46]

I'm with Barb on the polled thing, if I get horns, I have them removed, so it's just easier to raise polled animals. Don't get the idea that Dexters are somehow fragile or need a lot of care. They are hardy, take care of their babies and don't go in the barn unless it's just brutal weather. I've seen mine run coyotes all over the pasture and right out the fence. I put a halter on mine when I wean them and start the training then. I don't milk mine, but do butcher one every year plus I sell few grass fed steers, they are easy keepers, just do your regular worming and vaccinations. Dexters are not a mini breed so they don't have the health problems associated with them, they are just cows, only short and really good tempered.
P.J.

[linn]

There are naturally polled Dexters. Circle H Frederick is an example. I have a heifer out of him from a horned cow and my heifer is polled.

[sticky_burr]

since red is the only color that breeds true are the original dexters red?

[copperhead46]

Nope, but you can open a big can of worms with that question!!! I think the originals were black, but there were a lot of duns in the early lines. Barb or Genebo would know for sure. I like the duns the best, they produce pretty true, if you breed dun to dun.
P.J.

[genebo]

The Dexter breed is predominantly black and horned. Has been ever since it was first introduced to the US. Red was scarce in the early Dexters and dun was non-existent.

The red Dexters of today are not the original Dexters. They get their red color from the introduction of upgraded English bulls in the latter parts of last century. There are so few of the original red Dexters remaining that they're practically non-existent. One of those English bulls is responsible for all the polled Dexters.

True black Dexters will breed true. A true black Dexter is genetically noted as Ed/Ed B/B. Breed two of these together and you'll get Ed/Ed B/B every time.

A true dun Dexter, one that doesn't carry red, will be Ed/Ed b/b. Breed two of these together and you will always get a true dun Dexter.

Furthermore, there are two different kinds of Dexter red. There is E+ (wild red) and e (true red). A red Dexter can be one of 3 different combinations of these colors. So while it may be often repeated that red Dexters are the only ones that breed true, it just isn't true. Saying it doesn't make it so.

Breeding two E+/E+ red Dexters together breeds true. Breeding two e/e red Dexters together breeds true. Breeding an E+/E+ red Dexter to an e/e red Dexter will never breed true. It always produces an E+/e calf.

A red Dexter that is E+/e bred to a red Dexter that is E+/e will sometimes produce an E+/E+ calf, sometimes produce an e/e calf and usually produce an E+/e calf, like the parents. That is not breeding true.

Always keep an inquiring mind. Don't fall for a catchy phrase, just because it's often repeated.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[cowkeeper]

Isnt that sort of splitting hairs? The usual meaning of true breeding is breeding in which two parents with a certain phenotype (observable trait), produce offspring only with the same phenotype (observable trait). E+ is called wild, not "wild red" because it is not always red depending on the breed. E+ in the Dexter is red, so it matters not whether the animal is genotypically E+E+ or ee or E+e, it is still phenotypically red, and therefore two reds producing red are said to have bred true.
StickyBurr will probably not be genetically testing any Dexters before purchase to determine the genotype to find out if a black animal will "breed true", but needs to know that a black Dexter can carry red or dun or both and if bred to another black carrying colour, could produce a non-black calf. All three colors are legitimate Dexter colors.
Sticky, you can halter train your animals. Have the calves born inside or in a pen and get a little halter on and tie the cow and calf while you are close by doing chores. You will have a quiet calf that will not forget the early lessons, and you can milk the extra from the cow and not have to bottle feed to have a tame calf.ck
ps: Jeffers sells nylon web cow and yearling halters that fit Dexters, and several sizes of nylon web goat halters that are great for the littlest calves.

[Rogo]

I'm not normally on this forum, but I saw "Dexters" and had to stop in!


=== Dexters are a dual purpose breed ===


Make that a triple purpose breed! I got one to raise to ride and drive. He drove alone and also hitched up with a miniature donkey. Besides going on the trail, he rode/drove in many parades.

Brought him home when he was 2 months old. They sure are a gentle breed; so easy to work with. Once big enough, he roamed free on the acreage with all the other critters. Livestock guardian dogs are great protection of stock.


=== since red is the only color that breeds true are the original dexters red? ===


The herd the breeder had that mine came from were all black. She did a lot of breeding. In fact, I had to wait a while 'cause the herd kept having heifers
and that wasn't what I wanted!

[RdoubleD]

If I was getting into Dexter's I would purchase animals that were free from any of the testable defects. If the breeder has not tested and it is important to you then you should pay for the testing.
My Dexter's are priced based on the amount of testing that has been done, how much training they have, production records; beef yields, milk quantity and quality, show careers, polled, and color.

The cows I milk have access to the barn and I prefer them to be in the barn warm and dry when I come out to milk in the morning. Nothing worse then milking a dripping wet cow. LOL> Most my cows are use to the barn, some love the barn and will hang out in it all the time others prefer to stay outside. Some of my broke cows love the attention of being brushed and fussed over while others prefer to watch. Just like people they all the there own personalities.

When shopping for a Dexter to use as a milk cow keep in mind that not all Dexter's are created equal in that department. You will read on many forums about people who purchase a Dexter to use as a family milk cow to find out the production was terrible.

[sticky_burr]

any cow i agree to buy will be tested and if i can get or bred if i have space "perfect" dexters i think that would be awesome ie black/black polled/polled nonPHA/nonPHA A2/A2 non cho...dwarf. and rather healthy and happy critters. banding rejects. and eating them/selling the carcass
ifffff i was to bred up to standards there should be very few strays right? sounds logical but .. not sure

i found the first registration papers from ~1820 listing black/red also read that the black is from karrey and red from donovan(cant recall north or south) seems reasonable but dun i read was a later breeding or mutation

if there is no real down side to doing some halter work i might as well