OLDTIMER still waiting

myersfarm · #1 12/17/10, 07:13 PM

do not tell me you can add 10 % to 12 % and increase the protien......SHOW ME HOW MUCH OF EACH TO GET 12% MORE BY JUST ADDING CORN that is only 10% protien AND NOTHING ELSE

I SHOWED YOU IT IS YOUR TURN

AS YOU STATED THAT IS A REAL BIG .....OR ...NOT BOTH JUST THE CORN
To adjust the protein level when needed I can use either crack corn or wheat mids.

topside1 · #2 12/17/10, 07:48 PM

No idea what you guys are talking about,,a target protein ration can be easily obtained by using the "Pearson Square" formula. Just simple math. If anyone is intested I can explain further....Topside

myersfarm · #3 12/17/10, 07:54 PM

topside read this thread

High protein feed

oldtimer · #4 12/17/10, 08:35 PM

Topside,
Now you let the cat out of the bag!
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/livestk/01618.html

Quote:

If anyone is intested I can explain further.…

Please do.

myersfarm · #5 12/17/10, 08:52 PM

oldtimer that still does not work

adding corn 10 % to 12 % sweet feed to INCREASE THE PROTIEN is no were in that formual....show me you say you want to teach us ...here is your chance

intermediate ......means between the 2 NOT ABOVE

1.The value in the middle of the square must be intermediate between the two values that are used on the left side of the square. For example, the 14 percent crude protein requirement has to be intermediate between the soybean meal that has 45 percent crude protein or the corn that has 10 percent crude protein. If barley is used that has 12 percent crude protein and corn that has 10 percent crude protein, the square calculation method will not work because the 14 percent is outside the range of the values on the left side of the square.

topside1 · #6 12/17/10, 09:26 PM

I'm late to the party and didn't read all the posts...But let me make it clear to folks that are new...you can not turn a 11% sweet feed into a 21% mix by adding corn @ 10% protein. It's still a 11% protein mixture. Now if you mix Soybean meal 40% protein to cracked corn 10% well that's a whole new ballgame....Topside

myersfarm · #7 12/17/10, 09:27 PM

topside EXACTLY

topside1 · #8 12/17/10, 09:34 PM

The key word for bigtime farmer is TMR (Total mixed Ration). Simply meaning the ideal grains, minerals, salt, and even some roughage, ground into a perfect mixture, either on the farm or at the mill. I can guarentee that 11%-12% protein is far from the ideal mix if your planning on making money.

topside1 · #9 12/17/10, 09:36 PM

16% and upward is ideal, sweet feed and cracked corn will never get you there no matter how hard you try....I have a chart of all the protein choices for cattle if anyone would like to see I would photograph and post....Topside

topside1 · #10 12/17/10, 09:49 PM

As an example: I can put 100 pounds of flesh on a Jersey slaughter steer in less than 30 days just feeding high % protein feeds twice a day. No mixture @ 11% that I know of can out perform a high % twice a day program..You get what you pay for, you can't trick the price tag...I'm done,,,,Topside

oldtimer · #11 12/17/10, 10:21 PM

Topside,
Thank you for your participation and info..
Re:

Quote:

....I have a chart of all the protein choices for cattle if anyone would like to see I would photograph and post.…

Please.

Q. How many lbs per day of dry matter do you feed per animal to accomplish ( I can put 100 pounds of flesh on a Jersey slaughter steer in less than 30 days just feeding high % protein feeds twice a day. )

OT

francismilker · #12 12/17/10, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topside1

As an example: I can put 100 pounds of flesh on a Jersey slaughter steer in less than 30 days just feeding high % protein feeds twice a day. No mixture @ 11% that I know of can out perform a high % twice a day program..You get what you pay for, you can't trick the price tag...I'm done,,,,Topside

Topside, I'm not trying to get into the scuttlebutt of this protein debate here, but I'd like to no more about using high % protein feed to get this kind of rate of gain on an animal in 30 days. Share with me if you would'nt mind exactly what you're feeding to get that kind of gain on a jersey steer. If it'll work for a jersey it should also work for a beef show calf that is in a rate-of-gain competition for the county fair.

I've only noticed scours/loose stool on our show steers if the protein levels in their feed raise too much. We shoot for feeding a locally mixed "sweet feed" (minus the molasses) that is rated at 11-12% protein with 3% fat to obtain a good rate of gain.

topside1 · #13 12/18/10, 08:41 AM

Francis/Oldtimer my figure is based on using a weight tape not certified scales. As we all know weight tapes can flutucate greatly, winter coat, animal stance, water weight, time of day, tension on tape. So I will take back my statement and insert that on Thanksgiving day my Jersey steer weight taped at 823# and yesterday he was at 880# so thats 57# in 21 days. His weight gain is 2.7 pounds per day. I realize that most weight gains are around 2.5 per day. Sorry for the confusion/illusion, maybe I'm just to proud of my animals.

Francis-he's eating four pounds of 18% dairy pellets twice a day. Same pellets my lactating dairy goats eat..

oldtimer · #14 12/18/10, 11:06 AM

I find it absolutely amazing how fast youins can find a formula to mix feed when your purpose is an attempt to prove me wrong, but when for weeks I asked you for a formula to mix corn gluten, all I got was a song and a dance.
Why did you force me into lies, deceit and deception just to get you to admit there was/is in fact a proven industry accepted formula we could have been using when I first asked the question?
OK, be it as it may, we now have an agreed upon formula to discuss corn gluten feeding.

Would you now, using the Pearson Square formula, formulate the following mix for me.
Use:
Corn gluten with 15% protein
Cottonseed hulls with 3% protein.

Please give it to me in ratio and lbs.
Example ONLY:
5 parts corn gluten to 20 parts cottonseed hulls, will give you a 16% protein mix
And
5 lbs of corn gluten to 20 lbs of cottonseed hulls will give you a 16% protein mix.

And Please no more dog and pony shows or shell games as I am truly interested in understanding this. So you teach me!
Thank you
OT

oldtimer · #15 12/18/10, 11:30 AM

Topside,
Re:

Quote:

Francis/Oldtimer my figure is based on using a weight tape not certified scales. As we all know weight tapes can flutucate greatly, winter coat, animal stance, water weight, time of day, tension on tape. So I will take back my statement and insert that on Thanksgiving day my Jersey steer weight taped at 823# and yesterday he was at 880# so that’s 57# in 21 days. His weight gain is 2.7 pounds per day. I realize that most weight gains are around 2.5 per day. Sorry for the confusion/illusion, maybe I'm just to proud of my animals.

Thank you for your honesty.
No need to apologize for taking pride in your animals‘, that is how it should be.
I only wish all people would.

Re:

Quote:

Francis-he's eating four pounds of 18% dairy pellets twice a day. Same pellets my lactating dairy goats eat..

Is “four pounds of 18% dairy pellets twice a day” his only daily dry matter intake, or is it supplemented?
OT

Lazy J · #16 12/18/10, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtimer

Would you now, using the Pearson Square formula, formulate the following mix for me.
Use:
Corn gluten with 15% protein
Cottonseed hulls with 3% protein.

Please give it to me in ratio and lbs.
Example ONLY:
5 parts corn gluten to 20 parts cottonseed hulls, will give you a 16% protein mix
And
5 lbs of corn gluten to 20 lbs of cottonseed hulls will give you a 16% protein mix.

And Please no more dog and pony shows or shell games as I am truly interested in understanding this. So you teach me!
Thank you
OT

There is no way you can get a 16% CP ration using the 15% CGF and 3% CSH, it is a mathmatical impossibility without using something with higher protein such as DDGS, SBM, etc.

Jim

topside1 · #17 12/18/10, 02:34 PM

The steer is on the 18% plus the best grass hay my region has to offer....The pearson square works like this...subtract 15%-16% that gives you 1. Now subtract 3%-16% that give you 13%. Now add 13 and 1 giving you 14. Divide 14 into 13=92.8% then divide 14 into 1=.071%

92.8 plus .071 equals less than 100%, The only way you can achieve a16% ration is to start with at least one ingredient being above 16%....Your two ingredients are below 16%....Topside

oldtimer · #18 12/18/10, 03:02 PM

Jim,
Re:

Quote:

There is no way you can get a 16% CP ration using the 15% CGF and 3% CSH, it is a mathmatical impossibility without using something with higher protein such as DDGS, SBM, etc.

OK, agreed.
But I didn’t ask for a 16% CP! That was just “Example ONLY: “
W hat % CP do you get if you mix the two?

Then try this:
Corn gluten with 15% protein
Fescue hay with 08% protein (1)
W hat % CP do you get if you mix these two?
OT

1.

Quote:

The average quality hay in Alabama will be: 8.0 percent protein,

Source: http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php...:feeding-facts

Allen W · #19 12/18/10, 03:07 PM

Depends on how much of each you use.

Lazy J · #20 12/18/10, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtimer

Then try this:
Corn gluten with 15% protein
Fescue hay with 08% protein (1)
W hat % CP do you get if you mix these two?
OT

You will get a mix containing from 8% to 15% CP depending on the mixture ratio.

A 1:1 mixture would get you 11.5%, a 1:3 would get you 13.25 or 11.52%.

It is simple algebra.

Jim